Gliders in the Grand Canyon

Bret Berger wrote:


I drove the entire length of the runway at Toroweep (Tuweap) a few
months ago in a pickup truck. I didn't see an X. The national park
service ranger stationed about a mile away says that it still gets very
occasional use.

The following is offered because a lot has been said about Tuweep.
This airstrip is an example of the fuzzy (IMHO) distinction between
open, closed, maintained or not. Though it's legally closed, as the
above poster states, it is usable. Its condition unmaintained appears to
be the same as it was maintained. I landed there once a few years ago
for the heck of it and to take a pee. I drive by it about once a year.
It's 60-70 miles from any paved road in a hot dry landscape with no
building or natural shade. Aside from the NPS ranger (who has no
authority over the strip), there is only one other resident in the whole
valley, I believe. Any airport manager was in name only, and there was
no equipment for maintenance. Possibly the county road grader made an
appearance every few years, but I haven't seen any evidence of it. There
is absolutely no place to go once you land there, unless you're a hiker
used to the heat. The nearest and only attraction is about 6.5 miles by
road at the Toroweap overlook of the Grand Canyon, and that is as
spectacular a sight as you'll ever see, well worth the effort, but would
suggest you drive in and spend the night at the campground. Despite
attempts by back country pilots to "reopen" this strip, I think its
"glory" days ended when they stopped flying in supplies and rafters for
the Colorado River trips many years ago.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

You're giving morons a bad name.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Marty Shapiro writes:

Not only are you a moron, you're an asshole as well. How stupid does
one have to be to think that just because a printed chart (updated
every 6 months, and at least 1 month out of date when it appears)
shows an airport that the airport is still really operational as an
airport?

It's just a strip of dirt. That's all it has ever been. You can
still land on it and take off from it, so it's operational. It
doesn't need a tower or terminal or first-class lounge to be a usable
airport.

How would you know, wannabe boi?

You've never taken off or landed in your life.


Bertie

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Mxsmanic wrote:
A Guy Called Tyketto writes:

You, and your charts are wrong.

They are not my charts; they are prepared by the Federal government. Surely
you've seen the specific VFR chart for the Grand Canyon SFRA?

So your charts are the only ones that are right, and the
Arizona state government is wrong? You are delusional, Anthony. Next,
I'll suppose you want to believe you're right, and the state law is
wrong? If so, we'll see you on the next episode of COPS: Paris.

It isn't listed at Airnav.com. It isn't listed on any
sectional, let alone the Grand Canyon VFR chart or listed at your
beloved Skyvector.com.

It's on the Las Vegas sectional (which doesn't expire until August), and on
the Grand Canyon SFRA chart (which doesn't have regular cycles), at N
36.301407 W 113.071384. You can see it on Google Maps, and various pilots
have put pictures of it on the Web.

Show me at NACO, MyAirplane, or anyplace where a current A/FD
exists that has L50.

In the face of so much documentary evidence, it is impossible for me to lend
any real credence to your point of view. It's a bit like saying there's no
such place as Los Angeles.

Like told many times before, get your facts
straight before shooting off your mouth.

Actually, don't. It's a lot more fun showing how wrong you are
and how much of a fool you can be.

Anyone looking it up will find out very quickly just who is right and who is
wrong, and I recommend that anyone who is curious do exactly that.

We have. You're wrong, and a bloody idiot for not seeing it.

Oh wait.. Dilbert Rule still applies, doesn't it?

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
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A Guy Called Tyketto writes:

So your charts are the only ones that are right, and the
Arizona state government is wrong?

The charts are what I would use if I had to land somewhere.

Why is the State suddenly more right than the charts? Do you consult the
State before flying, or the charts?

Show me at NACO, MyAirplane, or anyplace where a current A/FD
exists that has L50.

Why is MyAirplane more reliable than an official chart?

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Mxsmanic wrote:
A Guy Called Tyketto writes:

So your charts are the only ones that are right, and the
Arizona state government is wrong?

The charts are what I would use if I had to land somewhere.

Why is the State suddenly more right than the charts? Do you consult the
State before flying, or the charts?

If the state owns the airport (which in the US, the city and/or
state's Dept. of Transportation owns and operates the airport)
indicates that the field is closed, I would believe the state over old
charts. See below for why.

Show me at NACO, MyAirplane, or anyplace where a current A/FD
exists that has L50.

Why is MyAirplane more reliable than an official chart?

Because MyAirplane as well as NACO contain the official A/FDs
for a given airport. They are also on a more updated cycle than
sectionals. A good pilot shall and must ALWAYS have the most recent
charts with them. If they don't, they are asking for being blasted by
controllers. If the latest A/FDs show a field to be closed, then the
sectionals that have the field shown as open are outdated. Therefore,
your charts are outdated, and you are wrong.

Yet another among countless times 'you are wrong' has to be
drilled into your head. Perhaps next time we shouldn't use a statement,
but an actual drill.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
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A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:
Yet another among countless times 'you are wrong' has to be
drilled into your head. Perhaps next time we shouldn't use a
statement, but an actual drill.



Be prepared for the cloud of methane that will be released..

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

Since you will be just simulating the landing, you will be OK.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

A Guy Called Tyketto writes:

So your charts are the only ones that are right, and the
Arizona state government is wrong?

The charts are what I would use if I had to land somewhere.

Why is the State suddenly more right than the charts? Do you consult the
State before flying, or the charts?

Show me at NACO, MyAirplane, or anyplace where a current A/FD
exists that has L50.

Why is MyAirplane more reliable than an official chart?

What's it matter to yuo. The only official chart you need is the one that
gets you to your Fritos.


Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

A Guy Called Tyketto writes:

You, and your charts are wrong.

They are not my charts;

You don't have charts. you don't fly.


Bertie