Gasohol

Do you think the CO2 emissions would have been cured had there been no
hystericals?
What has panic and mindless blather ever solved?
Tell me one thing that hysterics have ever cured?

I was not referring to hysterics, but rather, to "hysterics", and should
have quoted the word originally. People opposed to environmental
safeguards call them hysterics in the same way that people opposed to
airport closures refer to "noise nazis".

In that sense, "hysterics" (legitimage drawing of attention to the
damage we are causing to our and our neighbor's environment) have cured
many things. I am most grateful to the "hysterics" of the 1960s for the
relatively clean air we breathe today. One only has to go to parts of
Europe to breathe the difference (at least when I was last there).

As for whether CO2 needed to be "cured", that's not my point. The
statement was made that it =was= cured (along with other things
including doubling the gas milage), proving that the "hysterics" were
unnecessary. I do not see any such proof demonstrated by the facts
presented (which I will stipulate), especially as the "cure" was likely
to be costly, and business doesn't like costly things.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

I think you missed my point. I hope you missed my point. I hope
you don't think hysterical arguement actually help convince people
and are the PROPER way to have discussions on issues.

Alas, I was misread. Hysterical arguments don't convince anybody, but
rational arguments are derided as "hysterical" by those who oppose them.
I should have quoted the word.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

If it does get hotter, it will prove that the hystericals
were right, and we should have done something. If it does not, it will
prove that the hystericals were right and we did something good.

No, that only works if we =did= do something good. Or at least
something expensive (that is, something that business would not do on
their own, like install scrubbers in their smokestacks, or pre-treat
waste before dumping it in the river, or improve gas milage).

And no, before some quick-ass jumps at the chance, I am not suggesting
that "something expensive" is a good substitute for "something good".

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jose wrote:

Do you think the CO2 emissions would have been cured had there been no
hystericals?

The hystericals were not necessary and could have been a detriment.

Then why were the CO2 emissions cured? It certainly costs money, and
companies don't spend money for nothing.

I think you missed my point. I hope you missed my point. I hope
you don't think hysterical arguement actually help convince people
and are the PROPER way to have discussions on issues.


Bob! He's a teacher, not a scholar.

"Morgans" writes:


The pipeline people send many various grades of gas, all through the same
pipeline. They may send 95 octane straight gas for 4 hours, then switch to
82 octane for 2 hours, and so on, with the right storage facilities along
the way intercepting it, and putting it into separate tanks. I believe how
they know how to switch over, is to first know how long the switch in types
to get to them, then the senders put a dye package into the fuel to alert
the storage and distribution people that it is time to switch some valves,
and send the next fuel into a different tank.

Pretty close.

We never used dye. The operator has a stainless sink that drains into the
slop tank. In it is a large graduated cylinder. The faucet samples the
incoming line and pours into the cylinder; it oveflows into the sink. He
has an approprite hydrometer bobbing in it.

He "makes the cut" by observing the color change and the specific
gravity. He punches the [explosion-proof, of course!] pushbutton on the
valve panel when it's time.

He may cut early. middle or late; it depends on the two products. The
schedulers try to make adjacent 'tenders' friendly. Say $2 Fuel Oil
followed by Jet-A. That would be an late cut; he waits until he's sure
it's all Jet-A then he swings the valve. A few barrels of Jet-A aka
Kerosene will not hurt 100,000 bbls of #2FO.

If an unfriendly cut, say gas to Jet-A; he'll cut early to the slop
tank, and then ~~5-10 min later to Jet-A.

The slop tank is eventually emptied by being slowly injected into
a Kero/FO incoming stream; the tank is later tested to be sure its
flashpoint remains above 110F.


Specialty fuels may not travel the pipeline, but be shipped some
distances by tanker truck, or barge.

Fuels such as.... AvGas.
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

"David Lesher" wrote in message ...

We never used dye. The operator has a stainless sink that drains into the
slop tank. In it is a large graduated cylinder. The faucet samples the
incoming line and pours into the cylinder; it oveflows into the sink. He
has an approprite hydrometer bobbing in it.

He "makes the cut" by observing the color change and the specific
gravity. He punches the [explosion-proof, of course!] pushbutton on the
valve panel when it's time.

He may cut early. middle or late; it depends on the two products. The
schedulers try to make adjacent 'tenders' friendly. Say $2 Fuel Oil
followed by Jet-A. That would be an late cut; he waits until he's sure
it's all Jet-A then he swings the valve. A few barrels of Jet-A aka
Kerosene will not hurt 100,000 bbls of #2FO.

If an unfriendly cut, say gas to Jet-A; he'll cut early to the slop
tank, and then ~~5-10 min later to Jet-A.

The slop tank is eventually emptied by being slowly injected into
a Kero/FO incoming stream; the tank is later tested to be sure its
flashpoint remains above 110F.


Specialty fuels may not travel the pipeline, but be shipped some
distances by tanker truck, or barge.

Fuels such as.... AvGas.
--

Thanks Dave! Can 87 octane be mixed with ~93 octane to arrive at 90 octane? Seems like a lot of black magic (no pun
intended) in the oil business...

"Blueskies" writes:

--

Thanks Dave! Can 87 octane be mixed with ~93 octane to arrive at 90 octane? Seems like a lot of black magic (no pun
intended) in the oil business...



{please trim your quotes...}

We didn't {it was a Marketing function} but yes. Sunoco was the most
visible; their pump took both base [86 octane, ISTM] and high test & you
set the ratio before lifting the nozzle. Others did so in a less obvious
manner.

Most of the ''magic'' is marketing hype. It used to be "spot" gas [aka
noname] was dubious; maybe old, etc.. Since fuel injected cars took over;
IMHO 99.99% of gas is all the same, save the uniform on the attendent.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 00:15:25 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

"Morgans" writes:


The pipeline people send many various grades of gas, all through the same
pipeline. They may send 95 octane straight gas for 4 hours, then switch to
82 octane for 2 hours, and so on, with the right storage facilities along
the way intercepting it, and putting it into separate tanks. I believe how
they know how to switch over, is to first know how long the switch in types
to get to them, then the senders put a dye package into the fuel to alert
the storage and distribution people that it is time to switch some valves,
and send the next fuel into a different tank.

Pretty close.

We never used dye. The operator has a stainless sink that drains into the
slop tank. In it is a large graduated cylinder. The faucet samples the
incoming line and pours into the cylinder; it oveflows into the sink. He
has an approprite hydrometer bobbing in it.

Over 20 years ago I had the chance to tour the pumping and fuel
distribution control facility at a refinery. *Everything* was
controlled from that room. They measured flow rates
Vs time and claimed they could control the flow to the remote storage
facilities hundreds of miles away within several gallons. the system
was automated. The operator told it how many gallons of what to go
where. Different mixes and fuels were sent through the same pipeline
with no one on the other end to either make the switch or to monitor
it.

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message
...
We never used dye. The operator has a stainless sink that drains into the
slop tank. In it is a large graduated cylinder. The faucet samples the
incoming line and pours into the cylinder; it oveflows into the sink. He
has an approprite hydrometer bobbing in it.

Over 20 years ago I had the chance to tour the pumping and fuel
distribution control facility at a refinery. *Everything* was
controlled from that room. They measured flow rates
Vs time and claimed they could control the flow to the remote storage
facilities hundreds of miles away within several gallons. the system
was automated. The operator told it how many gallons of what to go
where. Different mixes and fuels were sent through the same pipeline
with no one on the other end to either make the switch or to monitor
it.


Were it only that the ATC system was so automatic, instead of so antiquated.
--
Matt Barrow
Performance Homes, LLC.
Cheyenne, WY

He may cut early. middle or late; it depends on the two products. The
schedulers try to make adjacent 'tenders' friendly.

Interesting post. Thanks Dave

Paul
N1431A
KPLU