Airplane shot down in Colombia

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 10:44:40 -0400, Aviv Hod
wrote in
:

Summary: US and Colombian agents shoot down a smuggling suspect:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=063_1182300981

This is shocking to me on so many levels - extrajudicial execution on
tape with Americans involved. Drug smuggling is a problem and all, but
this isn't like a police car chase where there is clear danger to
bystanders. Couldn't the authorities avoid deadly force?!? From the
tape it seems like the authorities were very concerned about the
proximity of the border but even if they would have had to let the plane
get away, that is no excuse for their trigger finger to do the police work!

Does anyone have any more context on this incident? Anyone know how
common this is? There was a family of missionaries that was shot down a
few years back in a similar anti-drug operation. Makes me sick.

-Aviv

I presume you are aware of a similar incident in which a missionary
aircraft was shot down by mistake several years ago.


Yes, that is probably why he referred to it in his next to last sentence.

Matt

Kyle Boatright wrote:

If (big, big, IF in Central/South America) the local authorities on the
destination end of the flight would jump in and grab everyone at the
delivery point, that would seem to be a more just and effective treatment..
Of course, the local policia at the destination are probably getting a
payoff and might not be happy with anyone putting a hurt on their
pocketbook...

I agree that catching them upon landing is the preferred course of
action, but given all of the talk about the border it is pretty obvious
that they were heading to a "safe haven" country. If that really was
the case (I'm only assuming that given the context), then I have no
problem at all with the shoot-down.

Matt

Dave S wrote:
Aviv Hod wrote:
Summary: US and Colombian agents shoot down a smuggling suspect:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=063_1182300981

This is shocking to me on so many levels - extrajudicial execution on
tape with Americans involved. Drug smuggling is a problem and all,
but this isn't like a police car chase where there is clear danger to
bystanders. Couldn't the authorities avoid deadly force?!? From the
tape it seems like the authorities were very concerned about the
proximity of the border but even if they would have had to let the
plane get away, that is no excuse for their trigger finger to do the
police work!

Does anyone have any more context on this incident? Anyone know how
common this is? There was a family of missionaries that was shot down
a few years back in a similar anti-drug operation. Makes me sick.

-Aviv

So what do you propose?

Copy his tail number down and terminate the chase? How would you STOP
this aircraft if the pilot doesnt want to cooperate?

Tell us the answer.

I don't know the answer to your question. Perhaps you are correct that
shooting the plane down is the only way to STOP the aircraft RIGHT NOW.
But is stopping the plane RIGHT NOW critical to anyone's safety?
Since no one was in danger during the pursuit (like there is in a car
chase on the freeway for example) I see no justification to use deadly
force.

Granted, if there is a border that can be crossed where the smuggler can
be in a safe haven, it sounds to me like a diplomatic problem that ought
to be addressed diplomatically. There are ways to provide incentives
for countries to cooperate so that you can chase the aircraft to its
destination and deal with the criminal issues there.

Law enforcement folks constantly make grave decisions to apply the
appropriate level of force for a given situation. Without immediate
threat to life from the smuggling plane, this strikes me as heavy handed
to the extreme.

-Aviv

Dave S wrote:
Copy his tail number down and terminate the chase? How would you STOP
this aircraft if the pilot doesnt want to cooperate?

If, hypothetically, this had happened in U.S. airspace (but it happened in
Colombia), then the police may only use deadly force if they had "probable
cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or
serious physical injury to the officer or others."[1]

That doesn't appear to be the case in this incident. So all they _could_ do
would be to write down the tail number and any other identifying info,
alert the destination nation of the aircraft and ask them to track and
arrest the occupants.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_force
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_v._Garner

Counting out guns that are used for hunting only, the FELONS have 3/4ths of
the rest of the guns that are in private hands.
Eh?!
sure would like a reference to the data that supports that idea.

(Of course statistics shows that 99.87% of statistics are made up )

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"NW_Pilot"

Almost anything you do now is a crime and half are classified as a felony
so they can disarm civilians so our government can try control the masses
even further.

****, don't make me laugh.

Counting out guns that are used for hunting only, the FELONS have 3/4ths
of the rest of the guns that are in private hands.
--
Jim in NC

If the video was widely distributed, it might encourage other pilots
in the ferry business to think about dropping gear and flaps and
following the fighter to an airport.

On 2007-06-30 07:44:40 -0700, Aviv Hod
said:

Summary: US and Colombian agents shoot down a smuggling suspect:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=063_1182300981

This is shocking to me on so many levels - extrajudicial execution on
tape with Americans involved. Drug smuggling is a problem and all, but
this isn't like a police car chase where there is clear danger to
bystanders. Couldn't the authorities avoid deadly force?!? From the
tape it seems like the authorities were very concerned about the
proximity of the border but even if they would have had to let the
plane get away, that is no excuse for their trigger finger to do the
police work!

Does anyone have any more context on this incident? Anyone know how
common this is? There was a family of missionaries that was shot down
a few years back in a similar anti-drug operation. Makes me sick.

-Aviv

The United States is signatory to treaties prohibiting firing upon
civilian aircraft, but regularly violates these treaties. This is
behavior that we used to associate with the worst aspects of the Soviet
Union and other rogue states.

On the other hand, these drug dealers are conducting what is basically
a civil war against the government of Columbia, attempting to set up a
criminal government providing a safe haven for all manner of gangsters
and thugs.

So it is a hard question. Do you let the drug dealers take over a whole
country, or do you violate international standards of behavior to
prevent it? Personally, I have grave concerns about becoming what we
are trying to stop.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

Counting out guns that are used for hunting only, the FELONS have 3/4ths
of
the rest of the guns that are in private hands.
Eh?!
sure would like a reference to the data that supports that idea.

(Of course statistics shows that 99.87% of statistics are made up )

Considering that the felons with the guns are not likely to volunteer that
information for a survey, that info would be "rather" hard to get, so shall
I make up some more statistics for you? g
--
Jim in NC

The United States is signatory to treaties prohibiting firing upon
civilian aircraft, but regularly violates these treaties. This is
behavior that we used to associate with the worst aspects of the Soviet
Union and other rogue states.

Just curious: When has the US ever fired on civilian aircraft?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:04:36 -0700, Airbus wrote:

Shooting them down is socially
constructive, and easily the right thing to do. It's like that.

Most of the nations to south of the U.S.A. believe in expediency. It's
much less expensive than a cumbersome due process system.

Police states are an extremely effective and economical way to control
crime.

--
Dallas