Congress Examines Pilot Medical Record Fraud

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 13:44:35 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
This begs the question, by what means did the DOT IG substantiate
the thousands of alleged "egregious cases" of airmen lying about
debilitating medical conditions on their applications for airman
medical certificates?

Well they either lied to the FAA or they lied to the SSA.


Why do you feel that this alleged lying _only_ concerns airmen who are
receiving disability compensation from the government? Is it not
plausible that there exists a medical reporting database that might
document medical conditions undisclosed by airmen on their FAA medical
application?

I don't, but the cross-referencing between the SSA and FAA databases is
where this came from.

Can you cite a source that corroborates that assertion? I've heard it
alleged before, but I've seen nothing to substantiate it.

Do you have reason to think that they are getting the data from somewhere
else?

No. But I try not to make unfounded assumptions.

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 23:41:38 GMT, Larry Dighera wrote:

I don't, but the cross-referencing between the SSA and FAA databases is
where this came from.

Can you cite a source that corroborates that assertion? I've heard it
alleged before, but I've seen nothing to substantiate it.

Yeah, I can.. it came from following one of your links. Page one, last
paragraph.

SUMMARY OF SUBJECT MATTER:

http://transportation.house.gov/Medi...7/SSM71707.pdf


--
Dallas

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 13:44:35 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
This begs the question, by what means did the DOT IG substantiate
the thousands of alleged "egregious cases" of airmen lying about
debilitating medical conditions on their applications for airman
medical certificates?

Well they either lied to the FAA or they lied to the SSA.


Why do you feel that this alleged lying _only_ concerns airmen who
are receiving disability compensation from the government? Is it
not plausible that there exists a medical reporting database that
might document medical conditions undisclosed by airmen on their
FAA medical application?

I don't, but the cross-referencing between the SSA and FAA databases
is where this came from.

Can you cite a source that corroborates that assertion? I've heard it
alleged before, but I've seen nothing to substantiate it.

Sure I can. Does a case that ended with a criminal conviction provide the
level corroboration you need?

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/cae/press_...Conviction.pdf

"This case is the product of an extensive/joint investigation by the Office
of Inspector General, Department of Transportation, and the Office of
Inspector General, Social Security Administration. The investigation began
in 2004 as part of Operation Safe Pilot, a joint effort between the Federal
Aviation Administration (FAA) and the Social Security Administration (SSA)
to cross-check their databases for people receiving social security
disability payments who were also being licensed to fly aircraft."


Do you have reason to think that they are getting the data from
somewhere else?

No. But I try not to make unfounded assumptions.

Bull****, you love to do that. In fact just 4 minutes before you posted this
completely reasoned message you posted...

"It would seem the Bush administration has the power, if not the
authority, to snoop at will. :-("

....when talking about the same subject.

Larry Dighera wrote:

CONGRESS EXAMINES PILOT MEDICAL RECORD FRAUD
(http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#195656)
Does the FAA need to do more to ensure that pilots are not lying
about dangerous medical problems so they can keep their
certification? That's the question that was discussed in
Washington, D.C., on Wednesday at a hearing

I was discussing the health of airline pilots with a recently retired
captain of a major airline. He commented that the flying public would be
upset if they knew the truth about medical conditions being hidden. He
also told of pilots going to MEs on the other side of the country from
home to get their physicals with sympathetic examiners.

"RomeoMike" wrote in message
...


Larry Dighera wrote:
CONGRESS EXAMINES PILOT MEDICAL RECORD FRAUD
(http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#195656)
Does the FAA need to do more to ensure that pilots are not lying
about dangerous medical problems so they can keep their
certification? That's the question that was discussed in
Washington, D.C., on Wednesday at a hearing
I was discussing the health of airline pilots with a recently retired
captain of a major airline. He commented that the flying public would be
upset if they knew the truth about medical conditions being hidden. He
also told of pilots going to MEs on the other side of the country from
home to get their physicals with sympathetic examiners.

I'm curious: Is there an actual problem based on statistics suggesting that
pilots lying on their medical exams is
a significant contributor to accidents, or is this more likely driven by
paranoia, ignorance or politics?

-c

C Gattman wrote:
"RomeoMike" wrote in message
...


Larry Dighera wrote:
CONGRESS EXAMINES PILOT MEDICAL RECORD FRAUD
(http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#195656)
Does the FAA need to do more to ensure that pilots are not lying
about dangerous medical problems so they can keep their
certification? That's the question that was discussed in
Washington, D.C., on Wednesday at a hearing
I was discussing the health of airline pilots with a recently retired
captain of a major airline. He commented that the flying public
would be upset if they knew the truth about medical conditions being
hidden. He also told of pilots going to MEs on the other side of the
country from home to get their physicals with sympathetic examiners.

I'm curious: Is there an actual problem based on statistics
suggesting that pilots lying on their medical exams is
a significant contributor to accidents, or is this more likely driven
by paranoia, ignorance or politics?

-c

No statisticly you are probably more likely to get shot in the face by the
Vice President. What SHOULD be ****ing folks off is that there are people
getting SSA payments who shouldn't be.

I had a look at a website that listed those items that would be
disqualifying for a medical certificate and really saw nothing that
was awful.

Some conditions, like loss of conciousness, seem fairly obvious. Many
things that would allow someone to collect disability (back problems
are an obvious example) are not reasons to lose one's medical.

I had really been looking to see if signing the medical certificate
also gave 'informed consent' for a waiver of privicy with respect to
medical records, but did not find that. You might remember whenever
you do have a medical condition that involves a third party payer you
sign away some rights so that the insurance company can get the
information they want.

If the FAA wants to 'send a message' all they need do is enforce this
a few hundred times.

"FAR 67.403 Falsification of the airman medical application form
8500-8 may result in adverse action including fines up to $250,000,
imprisonment up to 5 years and revocation of medical and all pilot
certificates."

On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 00:58:12 -0000, Tina wrote
in . com:

I had really been looking to see if signing the medical certificate
also gave 'informed consent' for a waiver of privicy with respect to
medical records, but did not find that.

I didn't see that either:

http://www.leftseat.com/8500.htm
http://www.leftseat.com/pdffiles/8500-8new.pdf

20. APPLICANT'S DECLARATION - Two declarations are contained
under this heading. The first authorizes the National Driver Register
to release adverse driver history information, if any, about the
applicant to the FAA. The second certifies the completeness and
truthfulness of the applicant's responses on the medical application.
The declaration section must be signed and dated by the applicant
after the applicant has read it.

You are being manipulated!
There is no herd of pilots flying over your head while impaired...
There is no crises other than the cynically created media blitz...
The public is not in danger - other than from special interest groups
(anti gun, anti GA, etc.)...


There is no pilot medical record fraud other than the isolated
incident that will always pop up now and then...
If you want fraud, better look at drivers - no licenses, expired
licenses, mis-tagged cars, drunk, stoned, epileptics, nearly blind,
psychotic, road ragers, arrest warrants, and on, and on... Both the
absolute numbers and the percentages vastly exceed anything that
general aviation has to offer...


And being disabled under SSI criteria does not necessarily mean that
you cannot and should not fly... The FAA has provisions in the
regulations that allow for demonstration of ability, fer cripes sake..
There are paraplegics flying and they certainly meet the SSI criteria
for disability... There are one arm pilots... There are diabetics
flying... There are one eyed pilots flying... There are post heart
attack pilots flying... There are post stroke pilots flying... And all
of them have valid medical certificates...

You are being manipulated - time to wake up and pay attention to who
is manipulating you and why...

denny

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
The FAA said it would be too labor-intensive to cross-check and
verify every application, and the safety risk would not justify
the resources it would consume.

The answer to that problem is so obvious that it should hit you right
between the eyes...eliminate the third class medical and concentrate the FAA's
resources on what remains. But alas, that was apparently not even mentioned.