req: CFI job advice

In rec.aviation.piloting, on Fri 31 Aug 2007 01:22:37a, Dallas
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:58:16 -0700, James Sleeman wrote:
If Enzo Ferrari ran an ad for Ferrari test drivers in Italy paying
$3.00/hour he would get a million resumes and one of them would me
mine.

Well, considering the fact that he died in 1988, the chance of that
happening are rather remote.

"Dallas" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:58:16 -0700, James Sleeman wrote:

I often wonder how instructors (in a general collective sense) managed
to get themselves into this ridicuous low pay situation.

Supply and demand.

If Enzo Ferrari ran an ad for Ferrari test drivers in Italy paying
$3.00/hour he would get a million resumes and one of them would me mine.

Except, now there's a waiting list at the FBO for instructors to become
available, so supply and demand says it ought to be a really good time to be
a CFI...

-c

Gattman wrote:
Except, now there's a waiting list at the FBO for instructors to
become available, so supply and demand says it ought to be a really
good time to be a CFI...

There's a waiting list for students willing to pay for a $15/hr instructor.
If it goes up there may not any students at all. While supply and demand
works well on the macro level it doesn't always do so on the micro level.

Flight instructing is like being a grad student or post-doc: lousy pay
and hours but you're building experience to something better. Or
consider it as pursuing a hobby for free. The point is that a CFI
rarely can make a career at instructing.

If that works with your situation, great. I'm just saying don't have
some starry-eyed notion of nobly teaching young lads and lassies the
essence of flight while supporting a family. But you don't sound like
a dreamer in your OP.
--
When I was a kid my favorite relative was Uncle Caveman. After
school we'd all go play in his cave, and every once in a while he
would eat one of us. It wasn't until later that I found out that
Uncle Caveman was a bear.
- Jack Handey

On Aug 30, 9:40 am, "Gattman" wrote:
Hey, all. I'm looking for a bit of wisdom here. Background is, I'm a
system administrator whose job just dissolved in a corporate buyout and,
after being promised that if I came over I'd keep my salary and title, I was
sleazed into a 30% paycut (given a single day to either sign it or hit the
road) and a new position that they've literally lie to interviewees to fill.
If you've seen Office Space, that's beyond the deal. To keep it short I'll
just say I'm done there as soon as I find another way to feed and insure my
family.

Yesterday at the FBO three miles from my house I overheard the manager and
chief instructor send a potential student across town, about 30 miles, to
Hillsboro because there's already a student waiting list due to an extreme
lack of instructors. The chief pilot said "It's going to be a hard winter
because we don't have -any- available instructors out here."

Their website has indicated for the last month that they're hiring CFIIs,
but they told me at this point they're hiring CFIs who intend to add the
second I. Basically, they're desperate (I did not identify myself as a
CFI-student.) Despite the 50% cut in pay, my internal ADF is pointing
right to their front door.

I have a $600/mo house payment, a one year old and a wife who will be out of
college (second degree, already getting lucrative job offers) in the spring.
We have enough money saved to get by until then, but before I approach them
for a full-time job (they claim instructors work 40-50 hour weeks) I'm
hoping to find out what questions I should ask them and if there's anything
I need to know. I finished my Commercial in June and I'm ready for the
FOI. My wife agrees that my current work situation cannot hold out until
she graduates.

Any advice or hazards I should beware of?

-chris
CP-ASEL-IA

I know Hillsboro. Check out the time sheets to see what hours the CFIs
are really getting paid for. And be prepared to carry your own
insurance.

I doubt that you could make enough to cover your house payment and
support your family, although a few manage to do it. The thing is,
right now the airlines are grabbing people with only a couple hundred
hours.

If being a CFI is so great, ask Hillsboro why they have an instructor
shortage.

"cjcampbell" wrote in message

I know Hillsboro. Check out the time sheets to see what hours the CFIs
are really getting paid for. And be prepared to carry your own
insurance.

I've heard that they're a CFI mill...low pay and high turnover as people
move on to other commercial operations.
Works for me as long as it pays the minimum cost of living. If not, I can't
do it.

I doubt that you could make enough to cover your house payment and
support your family, although a few manage to do it. The thing is,
right now the airlines are grabbing people with only a couple hundred
hours.

Pretty much everybody is losing CFIs around here, although I hear what
you're saying. Hopefully the laws of supply and demand will become a factor
here.

If being a CFI is so great, ask Hillsboro why they have an instructor
shortage.

From what I overheard, they're all moving up to the feeders. (I didn't blow
in and announce that I was looking for a CFI job. I just hung out for
awhile and listened to the employees, which was a stroke of luck.) I would
rather mop floors than deal with what's happening here right now.

-c

Gattman wrote:
Hey, all. I'm looking for a bit of wisdom here. Background is, I'm a
system administrator whose job just dissolved in a corporate buyout and,
after being promised that if I came over I'd keep my salary and title, I was
sleazed into a 30% paycut (given a single day to either sign it or hit the
road) and a new position that they've literally lie to interviewees to fill.
If you've seen Office Space, that's beyond the deal. To keep it short I'll
just say I'm done there as soon as I find another way to feed and insure my
family.

Yesterday at the FBO three miles from my house I overheard the manager and
chief instructor send a potential student across town, about 30 miles, to
Hillsboro because there's already a student waiting list due to an extreme
lack of instructors. The chief pilot said "It's going to be a hard winter
because we don't have -any- available instructors out here."

Their website has indicated for the last month that they're hiring CFIIs,
but they told me at this point they're hiring CFIs who intend to add the
second I. Basically, they're desperate (I did not identify myself as a
CFI-student.) Despite the 50% cut in pay, my internal ADF is pointing
right to their front door.

I have a $600/mo house payment, a one year old and a wife who will be out of
college (second degree, already getting lucrative job offers) in the spring.
We have enough money saved to get by until then, but before I approach them
for a full-time job (they claim instructors work 40-50 hour weeks) I'm
hoping to find out what questions I should ask them and if there's anything
I need to know. I finished my Commercial in June and I'm ready for the
FOI. My wife agrees that my current work situation cannot hold out until
she graduates.

Any advice or hazards I should beware of?

-chris
CP-ASEL-IA


I'd give the situation a LONG hard look if I were you before devoting a
ton of time into developing a CFI position full time.
With a family and responsibilities, I'm not saying it absolutely can't
be done, but it's been my experience that it's highly unlikely it will
work out the way you might be envisioning it at this point.
You can of course, considering your wife is gainfully employed, work a
CFI rating into a part time position that augments your wife's salary,
but if my experience in the instruction community is an indicator, you
might find the "augmenting" a bit less than you might be expecting.
I know of few FBO's running instruction programs that work a CFI at 40
hours a week PAID time. Between the weather, aircraft down time, and
everything else that gets in the way, I'd be amazed to see you producing
40 revenue hours a week in today's GA environment.

I realize this will be a personal decision for you based on information
I don't have at hand, but if you actually can use my experience in the
community, I would advise you to go ahead and get the CFI, but plan to
use it as a part time endeavor rather than full time. I would plan for
permanent employment outside the CFI environment in your chosen career
field and augment your combined career earnings with money earned as an
instructor.
I know many CFI's who have gone the part time route and have ended up
fairly happy with that decision. Conversely, I know of not one CFI
employed full time with a mortgage, a family, a car, insurance, and
college tuitions to look forward to who is making it on today's CFI salary.

--
Dudley Henriques

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

I know many CFI's who have gone the part time route and have ended up
fairly happy with that decision. Conversely, I know of not one CFI
employed full time with a mortgage, a family, a car, insurance, and
college tuitions to look forward to who is making it on today's CFI
salary.

Thanks for the advice. As a sysadmin I was able to put away a little money
just in case something ever happened (the company laid me off once
previously) so I could cover the difference for the few months until she
finishes classes even if I just worked part-time. If possible I'm going to
hold out until she's done. The problem is, this company has gone merger
crazy and every time they acquire somebody you have to compete for your own
job and accept increasingly-lower pay and benefits if you keep it. They
hire people for one position and as soon as you agree to do it, you're put
somewhere other than what they applied for, 'cause they can't keep people
legitimately.

Most recently I had to sign a contract rider for a job I already have that
says I won't badmouth the company for six months after I quit. That's an
indicator that it's going to get ugly.

-c

Gattman wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

I know many CFI's who have gone the part time route and have ended up
fairly happy with that decision. Conversely, I know of not one CFI
employed full time with a mortgage, a family, a car, insurance, and
college tuitions to look forward to who is making it on today's CFI
salary.

Thanks for the advice. As a sysadmin I was able to put away a little money
just in case something ever happened (the company laid me off once
previously) so I could cover the difference for the few months until she
finishes classes even if I just worked part-time. If possible I'm going to
hold out until she's done. The problem is, this company has gone merger
crazy and every time they acquire somebody you have to compete for your own
job and accept increasingly-lower pay and benefits if you keep it. They
hire people for one position and as soon as you agree to do it, you're put
somewhere other than what they applied for, 'cause they can't keep people
legitimately.

Most recently I had to sign a contract rider for a job I already have that
says I won't badmouth the company for six months after I quit. That's an
indicator that it's going to get ugly.

-c


Sounds like a perfect excuse for doing some serious networking exploring
another company down the line.
Best of luck with your CFI adventure.

--
Dudley Henriques

"GM" == Gattman writes:

GM Most recently I had to sign a contract rider for a job I
GM already have that says I won't badmouth the company for six
GM months after I quit.

To get even more off-topic, that seems unenforceable, I violation of
the free speech clause of the US Constitution. Non-disclosure of
company secrets, sure. Non-compete, maybe. Non-trash-talk?

--
My mother loved children ... she would have given anything if I had
been one.
Groucho Marx