When to descend II

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 02:47:51 -0700, Bee wrote:

No turn inbound required. He is presumably already on the localizer or
he couldn't identify ROYCE.

Bee,

I don't believe he can be 4 mi SW of ROYCE and also on the localizer for
Rwy 12. Or am I missing something?
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 02:47:51 -0700, Bee wrote:


No turn inbound required. He is presumably already on the localizer or
he couldn't identify ROYCE.


Bee,

I don't believe he can be 4 mi SW of ROYCE and also on the localizer for
Rwy 12. Or am I missing something?
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

He probably meant NW. You can't identify ROYCE unless you are on the
localizer.

He probably meant NW. You can't identify ROYCE unless you are on the
localizer.

Non GPS airplane?

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 06:58:38 -0700, Bee wrote:

He probably meant NW.

Perhaps, but I'd rather respond to the question asked than to the one I
made up. Also, if here were NW of ROYCE and on the localizer, he'd
probably omit the part of his question about "heading for the numbers"
since he'd already be heading in that direction.

You can't identify ROYCE unless you are on the localizer.

You can certainly navigate TO ROYCE without being established on the
localizer, however.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

"Bee" wrote:


I don't believe he can be 4 mi SW of ROYCE and also on the localizer for
Rwy 12. Or am I missing something?


He probably meant NW. You can't identify ROYCE unless you are on the
localizer.

No, I meant SW. I was on a vector to join, and then called the field in
sight.

I'm doing this from memory of 6 mos. ago. I might be missing a detail, but
the approach and tower clearances are essentially correct.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

"Bee" wrote in message ...

He probably meant NW.

I don't think so. If he was northwest of ROYCE on the localizer the part of
his question about heading for the numbers once the visual approach
clearance is issued becomes moot.

"Bee" wrote in message ...

No turn inbound required. He is presumably already on the localizer or he
couldn't identify ROYCE.


No presumption required, it was given that he's four miles southwest of
ROYCE.



Might not be the best airspace to be doing that without making sure you
won't be descending onto some other aircraft like Newps says.


There's no room for traffic below.

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...

I've not flown in that area, but ATC may be wanting you to fly to Royce
before turning inbound because of traffic on approach to Rwy 12L. There
are
some issues with intersecting flight paths that need to be avoided when
dealing with parallel runway operations.


If ATC wants him over ROYCE they must issue routing over ROYCE or vector him
to that point and withold visual approach clearance until he's over ROYCE or
past it.



Of course, if in VMC, you could cancel your IFR flight plan, mooting the
previous ATC clearance.


Well, he can cancel, but that may not do a lot for him. It's Class B
airspace so separation is still an issue.

Dan Luke wrote:
You're 4 miles SW of ROYCE.

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0710/00198IL12R.PDF

Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared visual
approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7."

On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land."

Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers and
come on down?


From 4SW of Royce...

I'd go to Royce as instructed, and begin my visual descent after
crossing Royce, making my right turn inbound, and visually identifying
the airport.

Crossing Royce @ 2000 doesn't make for an uncomfortable descent, and
it's not so far out of the way, so I don't think I'd bother to question
the clearance.

If things weren't busy, I'd probably just ask if I can head for the
numbers once I was on with the tower.

OK, now how does this change if, prior to reaching ROYCE, we are switched to
the tower and Tower says Cessna 123, cleared to land. (The OP did receive
such a clearance, but it was not clear where he was at the time)Does the
altitude restriction still hold?

I would say no, as, to me, 'Cleared to land' means that I am now in control
of my heading and altitude
"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
Dan Luke wrote:
You're 4 miles SW of ROYCE.

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0710/00198IL12R.PDF

Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared
visual approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7."

On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land."

Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers
and come on down?


From 4SW of Royce...

I'd go to Royce as instructed, and begin my visual descent after crossing
Royce, making my right turn inbound, and visually identifying the airport.

Crossing Royce @ 2000 doesn't make for an uncomfortable descent, and it's
not so far out of the way, so I don't think I'd bother to question the
clearance.

If things weren't busy, I'd probably just ask if I can head for the
numbers once I was on with the tower.