Precision Airmotive LLC

My question is Why oh Why didn't you check the carb screws before to put in
on your plane?

--
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A 46 Year Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
New address -
EAA Sport Pilot

"four-oh-four" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 05:58:50 GMT, Jerry Springer
wrote:

Instead of whining about lawyers, liability and the big problems with
our countries liability issue, I'm more interested in the basics. Such
as, do other manufacturers make STC'd parts for the
Precision/facet/Marvel dribbler carbs? Such as Kelly? Or did they buy
the parts from Precision and then overhaul carbs using those? If stc'd
parts are made elsewhere, then we should be okay keeping the current
crop of carbs flying. Precision didn't mention if they would continue
to sell carbs to the homebuilt/experimental market. But I suspect they
won't. Not sure about their Silverhawk add-on fuel injection system.
Be interesting to see if they continue to maket the non-certified
stuff. I've had mixed results from Precision. I flew to Lakeland a few
years ago in my homebuilt with a Marvel carb on my lyc. 160. My carb
had a problem, and I bought a rebuilt one directly from Precision,
having it shipped overnight to my hotel. I installed it in the
emergency repair area, then flew back home with it. Had mixture
problems all the way home. Once I got there, I found the case half
bolts were loose, never tightened correctly. And the carb was leaking
fuel along the seam. I was pretty angry they'd send me something that
messed up, so I raised hell with them, and they shipped me a brand new
one. I found out later, they farm out the overhaul to a foriegn
country. So goes the crappy job. Plus the first carb they sent me
looked ancient, an old Marvel one, and I suspect the internal threads
were worn out. That being the reason it worked loose. At least I got a
new one out of them before they stopped production. I think they
brought on some of their problems themselves. But I don't know of
anyone that manufactures the carb body, and that can wear out. So if
someone has an old carb body that has worn out threads. or is cracked,
they'll be looking for a used carb somewhere else.
RAM












Peter Nielson
Product Support Mgr.
Precision Airmotive LLC
14800 40th Ave NE
Marysville, WA 98271

360-651-8282

Subject: Letter to Industry

Here is the text of a letter we are sending out to the industry today.

Precision Airmotive LLC has discontinued sales of all float
carburetors and component parts as of November 1, 2007. This
unfortunate situation is a result of our inability to obtain products
liability insurance for the product line. Precision Airmotive LLC and
its 43 employees currently manufacture and support the float
carburetors used in nearly all carbureted general aviation aircraft
flying today. Precision has been the manufacturer of these
carburetors since 1990. These FAA-approved carburetors were designed
as early as the 1930's and continue to fly over a million flight hours
a year. After decades of service, the reliability of these
carburetors speaks for itself.

Nonetheless, Precision has seen its liability insurance premiums rise
dramatically, to the point that the premium now exceeds the total
sales dollars for this entire product line. In the past, we have
absorbed that cost, with the hope that the aviation industry as a
whole would be able to help address this issue faced by Precision
Airmotive, as well as many other small aviation companies. Our
efforts have been unsuccessful.

This year, despite the decades of reliable service and despite the
design approval by the FAA, Precision Airmotive has been unable to
obtain products liability insurance for the carburetor product line.
While we firmly believe that the product is safe, as does the FAA, and
well supported by dedicated people both at Precision and at our
independent product support centers, unfortunately the litigation
costs for defending the carburetor in court are unsustainable for a
small business such as Precision.

Therefore, as of November 1, 2007, Precision Airmotive LLC has been
left with no choice but to cease production and support of its float
carburetor product line.

We are working with the engine manufacturers and others in the
industry in an attempt to minimize the impact on general aviation and
to provide future support for this product line. There is a
substantial quantity of parts and carburetors stocked at our
distributors which should be sufficient to support the industry for a
short time.

On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:43:50 GMT, "Cy Galley"
wrote:

My question is Why oh Why didn't you check the carb screws before to put in
on your plane?


You can't. The screws have bend up tabs that are bent up to keep the
hex head screws from backing out. The only way you would know the case
was loose would be if it were so loose you could see the gap in the
seam, or bend the tabs down and then tighten the screws, and then bend
the tabs back up. But who would think that would be necessary with a
newly rebuilt carb shipped from the manufacturer? I think they did
tighten the screws, but the threads were worn out inside the carb
body, the screw threads slipped. Wasn't my fault! It was carb
manufacturers for shipping such a sloppy piece of crap.

Oh, come on. If the manufacturer did really "tighten" the bolts, then they
would have had to "slip" an entire thread on every pitch. Fixed threads
don't "slip" if they are worn, they jump threads. If the carb body was this
worn, the "tightening" would have completely stripped every pitch and they
wouldn't have been able to torque the bolts down.

BTW, a screw has a slot, a cross, or a keyway. A bolt has a hex head.

Me? I use the hex bolts but I replace them with drilled head bolts and use
both the bendmeup tabs and safety wire as well. There is nothing in the
manual that says you can't ADD safety, you just can't do less.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford




"four-oh-four" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:43:50 GMT, "Cy Galley"
wrote:

My question is Why oh Why didn't you check the carb screws before to put
in
on your plane?


You can't. The screws have bend up tabs that are bent up to keep the
hex head screws from backing out. The only way you would know the case
was loose would be if it were so loose you could see the gap in the
seam, or bend the tabs down and then tighten the screws, and then bend
the tabs back up. But who would think that would be necessary with a
newly rebuilt carb shipped from the manufacturer? I think they did
tighten the screws, but the threads were worn out inside the carb
body, the screw threads slipped. Wasn't my fault! It was carb
manufacturers for shipping such a sloppy piece of crap.

On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 08:01:07 -0800, "RST Engineering"
wrote:

Oh, come on. If the manufacturer did really "tighten" the bolts, then they
would have had to "slip" an entire thread on every pitch. Fixed threads
don't "slip" if they are worn, they jump threads. If the carb body was this
worn, the "tightening" would have completely stripped every pitch and they
wouldn't have been able to torque the bolts down.

BTW, a screw has a slot, a cross, or a keyway. A bolt has a hex head.

Me? I use the hex bolts but I replace them with drilled head bolts and use
both the bendmeup tabs and safety wire as well. There is nothing in the
manual that says you can't ADD safety, you just can't do less.

Jim

If the threads didn't slip, then they were never torqued correctly.
And the bolts were the type that had hex heads, and also a phillips
slot for a screw driver. Not sure how to label those. And who receives
a new carb from the manufacturer and disconnects all saftey wire/tabs
to check for tightness of all screws/bolts? virtually no one you
idiot! To suggest such a procedure is ridiculous. But there are always
those who will defend the manufacturer and blame the pilot/mechanic
regardless. You seem to fit nicely into that catagory. I'm the one who
flew the plane home with a leaking, brand new carb, not you mister
know-it-all.

RST Engineering wrote:
Oh, come on. If the manufacturer did really "tighten" the bolts, then they
would have had to "slip" an entire thread on every pitch. Fixed threads
don't "slip" if they are worn, they jump threads. If the carb body was this
worn, the "tightening" would have completely stripped every pitch and they
wouldn't have been able to torque the bolts down.

BTW, a screw has a slot, a cross, or a keyway. A bolt has a hex head.

Me? I use the hex bolts but I replace them with drilled head bolts and use
both the bendmeup tabs and safety wire as well. There is nothing in the
manual that says you can't ADD safety, you just can't do less.

Jim


Damn, I got ripped off, my machine supply house just sold me a couple
pounds of 1/2" SAE hex head cap screws. Must be some kind of government
conspiracy though, as I also have a bucket of AN21 "Bolts" out here in
the shop that obviously aren't bolts no matter what the AN spec calls
them. What else have I been lied to about? Looking in the bin under my
bench now...Oh my god, I really am screwed now -- I have bins full of
NAS stuff, all labeled "bolts" that can't possibly be bolts. At least
my Torx screws are authentic.

Charles

Instead ofdiscussing lawyers, liability and the big problems with
our countries liability issue, I'm more interested in the basics. Such
as, do other manufacturers make STC'd parts for the
Precision/facet/Marvel dribbler carbs? Such as Kelly? Or did they buy
the parts from Precision and then overhaul carbs using those? If stc'd
parts are made elsewhere, then we should be okay keeping the current
crop of carbs flying. Precision didn't mention if they would continue
to sell carbs to the homebuilt/experimental market. But I suspect they
won't. Not sure about their Silverhawk add-on fuel injection system.
Be interesting to see if they continue to maket the non-certified
stuff. I've had mixed results from Precision. I flew to Lakeland a few
years ago in my homebuilt with a Marvel carb on my lyc. 160. My carb
had a problem, and I bought a rebuilt one directly from Precision,
having it shipped overnight to my hotel. I installed it in the
emergency repair area, then flew back home with it. Had mixture
problems all the way home. Once I got there, I found the case half
bolts were loose, never tightened correctly. And the carb was leaking
fuel along the seam. I was pretty angry they'd send me something that
messed up, so I raised hell with them, and they shipped me a brand new
one. I found out later, they farm out the overhaul to a foriegn
country. So goes the crappy job. Plus the first carb they sent me
looked ancient, an old Marvel one, and I suspect the internal threads
were worn out. That being the reason it worked loose. At least I got a
new one out of them before they stopped production. I think they
brought on some of their problems themselves. But I don't know of
anyone that manufactures the carb body, and that can wear out. So if
someone has an old carb body that has worn out threads. or is cracked,
they'll be looking for a used carb somewhere else.
RAM



On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 05:58:50 GMT, Jerry Springer
wrote:

Peter Nielson
Product Support Mgr.
Precision Airmotive LLC
14800 40th Ave NE
Marysville, WA 98271

360-651-8282

Subject: Letter to Industry

Here is the text of a letter we are sending out to the industry today.

Precision Airmotive LLC has discontinued sales of all float
carburetors and component parts as of November 1, 2007. This
unfortunate situation is a result of our inability to obtain products
liability insurance for the product line. Precision Airmotive LLC and
its 43 employees currently manufacture and support the float
carburetors used in nearly all carbureted general aviation aircraft
flying today. Precision has been the manufacturer of these
carburetors since 1990. These FAA-approved carburetors were designed
as early as the 1930's and continue to fly over a million flight hours
a year. After decades of service, the reliability of these
carburetors speaks for itself.

Nonetheless, Precision has seen its liability insurance premiums rise
dramatically, to the point that the premium now exceeds the total
sales dollars for this entire product line. In the past, we have
absorbed that cost, with the hope that the aviation industry as a
whole would be able to help address this issue faced by Precision
Airmotive, as well as many other small aviation companies. Our
efforts have been unsuccessful.

This year, despite the decades of reliable service and despite the
design approval by the FAA, Precision Airmotive has been unable to
obtain products liability insurance for the carburetor product line.
While we firmly believe that the product is safe, as does the FAA, and
well supported by dedicated people both at Precision and at our
independent product support centers, unfortunately the litigation
costs for defending the carburetor in court are unsustainable for a
small business such as Precision.

Therefore, as of November 1, 2007, Precision Airmotive LLC has been
left with no choice but to cease production and support of its float
carburetor product line.

We are working with the engine manufacturers and others in the
industry in an attempt to minimize the impact on general aviation and
to provide future support for this product line. There is a
substantial quantity of parts and carburetors stocked at our
distributors which should be sufficient to support the industry for a
short time.

You can do more. It is important that you contact your congressman
today - www.AeroBlue.Org/TortReform

Describe the damage that these suits have on our industry. This
action will affect 152,000 $15B worth of aircraft.

We need to extend the General Aviation Revitalization Act to protect
certified manufacturers, parts and service.

There are increasing numbers of mechanics who will not, can not repair
aircraft over 18 years old, because this liability has shifted to the
mechanic and the part.

AeroBlue.Org - The Grassroots Aviation Network

I wrote Precision the following letter, and got back a reply.

I would like to know if your company will still manufacture the
SilverHawk
fuel injection systems? And what about carburetors for experimental
aircraft, are they to be discontinued also? And companies like Kelly,
that
rebuild your carbs, will they be able to do so, or was Precision the
only
source of approved parts for the float carburetors? Are there other
companies that manufacture STC'd parts for your carbs?


Their reply,
We are continuing to sell all of our fuel injection products. We are
not
able to supply any carburetors or components for any purpose.
Precision has
no affiliation with Kelly or any other aftermarket PMA carburetor
parts
manufacturers.


From what they said, it seems manufacturers like Kelly Aerospace do
indeed manufacture parts for the carbs, so about the only thing that
won't be available are the actual carb bodies. And there should be
enough of those around to last the G/A fleet for a long time. I
suspect parts prices will go up though. The key words in their reply
was "other aftermarket PMA" which means other companies can
manufactures replacement parts. That fact should keep us flying.

Nothing will be done.

Check what group is the largest contributor to campaigns.

Trial lawyers.

nuf said.

wrote:
Nothing will be done.

Check what group is the largest contributor to campaigns.

Trial lawyers.

nuf said.


You have your head up your ass, keep the politics out of the news group.
this is an airplane group, keep it that way.