50% of NAZI oil was supplied from US

"Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message
...
Michael Petukhov wrote in message ...


The Ford plant was hit, using a truck plants as an example
ignores the allies largely ignored such factories in their
target selection, they went for aircraft factories, oil and
transport links and the German cities.


What's amusing about the conspirowhacko sites Michael loves
so much is they always ignore the Opel truck plant,
which was pretty well destroyed by bombing.

Opel was (and still is) owned by General Motors.

Keith

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:37:50 -0000, "Keith Willshaw"
wrote:


"Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message
...
Michael Petukhov wrote in message ...


The Ford plant was hit, using a truck plants as an example
ignores the allies largely ignored such factories in their
target selection, they went for aircraft factories, oil and
transport links and the German cities.


What's amusing about the conspirowhacko sites Michael loves
so much is they always ignore the Opel truck plant,
which was pretty well destroyed by bombing.

Opel was (and still is) owned by General Motors.

Keith


Truck production in Germany was never up to the level as to effect the
conduct or outcome of the war. The Germans used hundreds of thousands
of horses in their invasion of the USSR in 1941 because of their lack
of efficient transport. It got even worse as the war progressed. One
of the chief advantages the Soviets had in their campaign against the
Germans was the tens of thousands of excellent, dependable trucks
shipped to them from the West, which ran well even in the Soviet
Winter. This allowed the Soviets to move vast amounts of men and
materiel faster and more efficiently than the Germans. The Germans
never did grasp the importance of motorized transportation, putting
the priority of the rebuilding or repairing of truck plants behind
that of of the rebuilding of aircraft and tank factories. It is
ironic that the Germans didn't put much effort into building good
shoes for their troops, given they had to do so much walking!!

As a matter of interest, there were about 350,000 trucks and almost
100,000 jeeps (the commissars didn't like walking) shipped to the
Soviets during WWII.

From: "Keith Willshaw"
Date: 10/27/2003 1:37 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message
...
Michael Petukhov wrote in message ...


The Ford plant was hit, using a truck plants as an example
ignores the allies largely ignored such factories in their
target selection, they went for aircraft factories, oil and
transport links and the German cities.


What's amusing about the conspirowhacko sites Michael loves
so much is they always ignore the Opel truck plant,
which was pretty well destroyed by bombing.

Opel was (and still is) owned by General Motors.

Keith

Or DuPont and a few others.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

"Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message ...
Michael Petukhov wrote in message ...
"Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message ...
This will probably appear in the wrong place thanks to a bad
news server.

Bad or not that bad. How about this?

Let us see now, instead of answering the problems with the
oil claim the subject is simply changed.

Well you could note I do not get salary to answer on all your
claims. You cite one book I cite a couple of others which seem show
very different pictures on the matter discussed. Any one
can decide which version is closer to sad reality, including you
and me. That's all as far as I understand.

Although I do appreciate your contribution and the numbers
you cited. So now I better understand what was US official
line of defence on its supplies to NAZI germany. A good
starting point to look a bit deeper. When and if I find
something extrodinary like yours "non existent Spanish oil
refinery" in Canaries I'll post it, don't worry.

Effectively none of
my text makes it to the non reply.

Maybe. Although unfortunately I do not have the book
to decide how objective, selfconsistent and complete is it.

All the best

Michael

No attempt to explain the appearance of a non existent
Spanish oil refinery, nor why the claimed imports of US
oil do not match the German records, nor Spanish
records, nor why the British would let hundreds of
Spanish tanker sailings full of oil simply sail past
Gibraltar for 4 years of war and so on.

Instead we have a shock horror story of how some people
in the US invested in Germany before and after Hitler came
to power and that some liked his ideas. Then add a whole
lot of accusations. The usual trawl of the internet to find
someone who agrees the earth is flat and that it means we
are really riding on the backs of 4 elephants who are in
turn supported by a great turtle cruising through space.

USSR trade with Germany, million marks, value of German imports
from USSR,

1933 194, 1934 210, 1935 215, 1936 93, 1937 65, 1938 53
1939 30 1940 391.

value of German exports to USSR

1933 282, 1934 63, 1935 39, 1936 126, 1937 117, 1938 34,
1939 31, 1940 216.

Germany's share of USSR foreign trade, percentages,
year / imports / exports

1933 42.5 /18.7
1934 12.4 / 23.5
1935 9.0 / 18.0
1936 22.8 / 8.6
1937 14.9 / 6.2
1938 4.7 / 6.6

Stalin was quite a happy trader with Nazi Germany, despite the
Nazi Government's ideology that called for the destruction of the
USSR, the Nazis did not call for the destruction of the USA.
People do trade.

(snip)

Among the U.S. corporations that invested in Germany during the 1920s
were Ford, General Motors, General Electric, Standard Oil, Texaco,
International Harvester, ITT, and IBM ? all of whom were more than
happy to see the German labor movement and working-class parties
smashed. For many of these companies, operations in Germany continued
during the war (even if it meant the use of concentration-camp slave
labor) with overt U.S. government support. "Pilots were given
instructions not to hit factories in Germany that were owned by U.S.
firms," writes Michael Parenti. "Thus Cologne was almost leveled by
Allied bombing but its Ford plant, providing military equipment for
the Nazi army, was untouched; indeed, German civilians began using the
plant as an air raid shelter."

The Ford plant was hit, using a truck plants as an example
ignores the allies largely ignored such factories in their
target selection, they went for aircraft factories, oil and
transport links and the German cities.

Remember the US government paid compensation to the
firms for bomb damage, no need if no damage.

Also blaming US management for what the management did
in Germany while the US was at war with Germany is an
impressive leap in bad logic.

(snip) rest.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.

This will probably appear in the wrong place thanks to a bad
news server.

Michael Petukhov wrote in message ...
"Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message ...
Michael Petukhov wrote in message ...
"Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message ...
This will probably appear in the wrong place thanks to a bad
news server.

Bad or not that bad. How about this?

Let us see now, instead of answering the problems with the
oil claim the subject is simply changed.

Well you could note I do not get salary to answer on all your
claims.

So we can take it as read Michael is paid to post material that
to be true requires a major conspiracy involving the faking of
American, British, French, Spanish and German documentation.
Since the alleged conspiracy requires American oil to Germany
via Spain and France with Britain allowing the tankers to sail
by Gibraltar for years.

You cite one book I cite a couple of others which seem show
very different pictures on the matter discussed. Any one
can decide which version is closer to sad reality, including you
and me. That's all as far as I understand.

This is really funny, "all care and no responsibility". Michael
cannot defend the version he prefers, but tries to announce
the equivalence of a belief in a flat Earth and a round Earth,
they should be treated equally apparently. By the way what
were "the books" Michael cited?

Although I do appreciate your contribution and the numbers
you cited. So now I better understand what was US official
line of defence on its supplies to NAZI germany.

I see, instead of actually answering the problems about US
oil ending up in Germany during WWII Michael simply
carries on assuming it was true, but cannot actually defend
the article, just change the subject.

A good
starting point to look a bit deeper. When and if I find
something extrodinary like yours "non existent Spanish oil
refinery" in Canaries I'll post it, don't worry.

Look on the internet, you can find almost anything, just tell
them what you want to believe and it can be supplied.

Effectively none of
my text makes it to the non reply.

Maybe. Although unfortunately I do not have the book
to decide how objective, selfconsistent and complete is it.

So please tell us all when you looked at the research and
facts behind the article you quoted to "decide how objective,
selfconsistent and complete is it", or does that only apply
to disliked facts?

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.

Jörg Bihlmayr wrote in message ...
Michael Petukhov schrieb:

http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_art...=16866&lang=ru

(in russian)

The article discuss the oil balance of NAZI Germany in 37 - june 44.
The funny side is that some 50% of oil and petrolium products
were supplied by US based companies (the standard oil of New Jersey,
the standard oil of California and the Davis oil company) mainly via
Spain. This includes 100% of oil supply for NAZI subs operating in
Atlantic. All these operations were authorised by US government.

Care to mention, who the other big supplier of oil to Germany until 1941
was?

Jörg

Do you mean USSR? Sure it was suppling some products including oil.
Unfortunately the article does not report actual numbers which
as far as I remember were within 1-2 mil tons/year in 40. I think
it is due to the subject of the article, the US supply to NAZI
germany. Although there are data on Germany oil balance by the
end of 1941:

Germany total oil demand: 16 mil tons/year
Strategic reserve: 10 mil tons/year
Germany production of synthetic petrolium: 5 mil tons/year
Import from Rumania and Hungary: 6 mil. tons/year
Import from S.Africa via Mediterranean ports: 3 mil tons/year
Import via Standard and Davis: 6 mil tons/year
plus unaccounted refuelling of german subs in South America ports
by EuroTank company (Davis)

Nobody says that USSR was innocent of NAZI collaboration in 39-41.
But US was no better than USSR in that respect. Moreover the fact
is that Hitler was receiving the lion's share of the oil form
western, mainly US, sources in the period of 37-44.

Michael



Michael

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