dogfight

On Dec 15, 9:49 pm, C J Campbell
wrote:

It is the same thing that the airlines are doing today: cannibalizing
all the instructors and worrying later about where the next generation
of pilots is going to come from. You wonder if the airlines will reach
the point where Germany was, trying to win the war, so to speak, with
just one pilot.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor- Hide quoted text -

What draws you to this conclusion ?
Do you fly at a regonal ?
FB

On 2007-12-16 07:47:04 -0800, "F. Baum" said:

On Dec 15, 9:49 pm, C J Campbell
wrote:

It is the same thing that the airlines are doing today: cannibalizing
all the instructors and worrying later about where the next generation
of pilots is going to come from. You wonder if the airlines will reach
the point where Germany was, trying to win the war, so to speak, with
just one pilot.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor- Hide quoted text -

What draws you to this conclusion ?
Do you fly at a regonal ?
FB

No. But I know that instructors are leaving the flight school before
they have been there a year. It takes two years of instructing before
you can make a new instructor. So I am the only one, now, and the boss
counts himself fortunate that I am there. But all the flight schools
are screaming for instructors and we can't train enough new ones with
the few that are left. Without instructors there are no new pilots. It
has reached the point where some flight schools are offering
instructors who stay (instead of going to the airlines) $59,000 a year
salary and a full benefits package.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

"C J Campbell" wrote

But all the flight schools are screaming for instructors and we can't
train enough new ones with the few that are left. Without instructors
there are no new pilots. It has reached the point where some flight
schools are offering instructors who stay (instead of going to the
airlines) $59,000 a year salary and a full benefits package.

If they keep that up, they will finally be able to keep a few, I'll bet.
Although it would hurt a little more to pay for instruction with that kind
of pay schedule, it would be great to have committed, fully qualified
instructors, instead of 100 hour wonders.
--
Jim in NC

On Dec 16, 1:42 pm, C J Campbell
wrote:

What draws you to this conclusion ?
Do you fly at a regonal ?
FB

No. But I know that instructors are leaving the flight school before
they have been there a year. It takes two years of instructing before
you can make a new instructor. So I am the only one, now, and the boss
counts himself fortunate that I am there. But all the flight schools
are screaming for instructors and we can't train enough new ones with
the few that are left. Without instructors there are no new pilots. It
has reached the point where some flight schools are offering
instructors who stay (instead of going to the airlines) $59,000 a year
salary and a full benefits package.

You bring up an exellent point, and I hope you are one of the
instructors making that much. The reason we have a shortage is because
of the low pay and working conditions over the years (For one of the
most important jobs in aviation). At 60 grand Id consider being an
instructor. Good luck,
FB

On Dec 15, 8:54 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
wrote:
A buddy of mine recorded some History Channel show and I watched it.
The show was "Dogfight", and this episode was on P-51s fighting
ME109s, FW190, ME262s, and some Japanese planes.

In one recreation, a P51 pilot has an unusual ME109 chasing him. The
plane is actually out performing his P51 -- that wasn't usual with
109s. I don't remember exactly how long the ME109 was on him, but it
was about to be able to lead him just enough to take him out
(according to the P51 pilot, and, how he knew that I don't know). I
liked that they actually interviewed the P51 pilots who described what
was going on.

Anyway all of the sudden the P51 pilot tries a trick: he pulls the
stick back hard against his gut, at the same time jams hard bottom
rudder, the 51 spins out, sort of flat, and as it swings around the
pilot hit the fire button and laid out a stream of .50 caliber through
which the German flew and was knocked out.

I want to learn how to do that trick!

It's a pretty cool show, amazing CGI recreations. I slow motioned the
maneuver -- all the control surfaces looked right at each stage.

Snap Roll. Isn't the best idea in the 51 but doable if you get the speed
down below corner. Depending on the GW; down around 250 maximum. It will
snap before it loads all the way up to max structural g which is
mandatory unless you want to leave the wings and the fuselage as 3
separate parts in the sky.

Bertie's right. The show models are good but not totally realistic. I've
seen some slew moves on the program that you would really need vectored
thrust to perform.

As to the 109 out performing the 51. The 109 in skilled hands was a
deadly opponent at low to medium altitudes. It really boils down to what
I like to call "The difference between the cockpits", or how good one
pilot is vs how bad the other one might be.

--
Dudley Henriques

I don't know if there were any higher performance versions of the
ME-109, but the TA-152 could outperform the Mustang. It was a souped
up version of the FW-190.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Ta_152

wrote:
On Dec 15, 8:54 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
wrote:
A buddy of mine recorded some History Channel show and I watched it.
The show was "Dogfight", and this episode was on P-51s fighting
ME109s, FW190, ME262s, and some Japanese planes.
In one recreation, a P51 pilot has an unusual ME109 chasing him. The
plane is actually out performing his P51 -- that wasn't usual with
109s. I don't remember exactly how long the ME109 was on him, but it
was about to be able to lead him just enough to take him out
(according to the P51 pilot, and, how he knew that I don't know). I
liked that they actually interviewed the P51 pilots who described what
was going on.
Anyway all of the sudden the P51 pilot tries a trick: he pulls the
stick back hard against his gut, at the same time jams hard bottom
rudder, the 51 spins out, sort of flat, and as it swings around the
pilot hit the fire button and laid out a stream of .50 caliber through
which the German flew and was knocked out.
I want to learn how to do that trick!
It's a pretty cool show, amazing CGI recreations. I slow motioned the
maneuver -- all the control surfaces looked right at each stage.
Snap Roll. Isn't the best idea in the 51 but doable if you get the speed
down below corner. Depending on the GW; down around 250 maximum. It will
snap before it loads all the way up to max structural g which is
mandatory unless you want to leave the wings and the fuselage as 3
separate parts in the sky.

Bertie's right. The show models are good but not totally realistic. I've
seen some slew moves on the program that you would really need vectored
thrust to perform.

As to the 109 out performing the 51. The 109 in skilled hands was a
deadly opponent at low to medium altitudes. It really boils down to what
I like to call "The difference between the cockpits", or how good one
pilot is vs how bad the other one might be.

--
Dudley Henriques

I don't know if there were any higher performance versions of the
ME-109, but the TA-152 could outperform the Mustang. It was a souped
up version of the FW-190.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Ta_152


The 51 was a fine airplane, and it worked well at all altitudes but it
was nearing the end of its run at the end of the war.
I loved the airplane and flew it often but for me, flying the F8F
Bearcat one sunny afternoon in December, redefined the meaning of the
term "prop fighter performance".
In my opinion, if the war had lingered on and the Bear had been mass
produced for both theaters, the F8F would have not seen its match anywhere.
Just my opinion though. I'm not all that sure Kurt Tank might have
agreed :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

wrote:
On Dec 15, 8:54 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
wrote:
A buddy of mine recorded some History Channel show and I watched
it. The show was "Dogfight", and this episode was on P-51s fighting
ME109s, FW190, ME262s, and some Japanese planes.
In one recreation, a P51 pilot has an unusual ME109 chasing him.
The plane is actually out performing his P51 -- that wasn't usual
with 109s. I don't remember exactly how long the ME109 was on him,
but it was about to be able to lead him just enough to take him out
(according to the P51 pilot, and, how he knew that I don't know). I
liked that they actually interviewed the P51 pilots who described
what was going on.
Anyway all of the sudden the P51 pilot tries a trick: he pulls the
stick back hard against his gut, at the same time jams hard bottom
rudder, the 51 spins out, sort of flat, and as it swings around the
pilot hit the fire button and laid out a stream of .50 caliber
through which the German flew and was knocked out.
I want to learn how to do that trick!
It's a pretty cool show, amazing CGI recreations. I slow motioned
the maneuver -- all the control surfaces looked right at each
stage.
Snap Roll. Isn't the best idea in the 51 but doable if you get the
speed down below corner. Depending on the GW; down around 250
maximum. It will snap before it loads all the way up to max
structural g which is mandatory unless you want to leave the wings
and the fuselage as 3 separate parts in the sky.

Bertie's right. The show models are good but not totally realistic.
I've seen some slew moves on the program that you would really need
vectored thrust to perform.

As to the 109 out performing the 51. The 109 in skilled hands was a
deadly opponent at low to medium altitudes. It really boils down to
what I like to call "The difference between the cockpits", or how
good one pilot is vs how bad the other one might be.

--
Dudley Henriques

I don't know if there were any higher performance versions of the
ME-109, but the TA-152 could outperform the Mustang. It was a souped
up version of the FW-190.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Ta_152


The 51 was a fine airplane, and it worked well at all altitudes but it
was nearing the end of its run at the end of the war.
I loved the airplane and flew it often but for me, flying the F8F
Bearcat one sunny afternoon in December, redefined the meaning of the
term "prop fighter performance".
In my opinion, if the war had lingered on and the Bear had been mass
produced for both theaters, the F8F would have not seen its match
anywhere. Just my opinion though. I'm not all that sure Kurt Tank
might have agreed :-))

I loveth elook of the Bearca, but for me, the FW 190 has to share the
best looking fighter of the war along with the Zero..

Bertie.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote

The 51 was a fine airplane, and it worked well at all altitudes but it was
nearing the end of its run at the end of the war.
I loved the airplane and flew it often but for me, flying the F8F Bearcat
one sunny afternoon in December, redefined the meaning of the term "prop
fighter performance".
In my opinion, if the war had lingered on and the Bear had been mass
produced for both theaters, the F8F would have not seen its match
anywhere.

Interesting. I had never heard that expressed, before.

Would the F8F had the legs to do the long range bomber escort missions?

How about top speeds; was it as fast, or faster than the 51?
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in
news

"Dudley Henriques" wrote

The 51 was a fine airplane, and it worked well at all altitudes but
it was nearing the end of its run at the end of the war.
I loved the airplane and flew it often but for me, flying the F8F
Bearcat one sunny afternoon in December, redefined the meaning of the
term "prop fighter performance".
In my opinion, if the war had lingered on and the Bear had been mass
produced for both theaters, the F8F would have not seen its match
anywhere.

Interesting. I had never heard that expressed, before.

Would the F8F had the legs to do the long range bomber escort
missions?

How about top speeds; was it as fast, or faster than the 51?


Faster, I believe. It held the piston speed record with mods.
Range would have been about the same with drop tanks.
It could also beat any jet to 10,000 fee well into the seventies.

I'm with Dudley. this airplane was way sexier than the Mustang in my book.
I was sorely tempted to go down to Junior Burchinal's place and blow every
penny I had on a checkout in one at one stage, but probbly found something
else to blow it on!
I know someone who did just that though. He ended up dusting for Junior and
spent every dime on flying his mustang on weekends. He also got typed in
the B-17



Bertie

Morgans wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote

The 51 was a fine airplane, and it worked well at all altitudes but it was
nearing the end of its run at the end of the war.
I loved the airplane and flew it often but for me, flying the F8F Bearcat
one sunny afternoon in December, redefined the meaning of the term "prop
fighter performance".
In my opinion, if the war had lingered on and the Bear had been mass
produced for both theaters, the F8F would have not seen its match
anywhere.

Interesting. I had never heard that expressed, before.

Would the F8F had the legs to do the long range bomber escort missions?

How about top speeds; was it as fast, or faster than the 51?
The Bear had VERY short legs and even with the drop tank would never
have made it as a long range fighter.
In close, intercept, and shoot it down fast was the Bear's prime
intended function.

--
Dudley Henriques