Help In Choosing A School For A Private Pilot's License

C J Campbell wrote:
On 2007-12-26 09:24:54 -0800, "Jim Macklin"
said:

I'll add one more think, the instructor/student relationship is very
personal. Instructors have plan and if a student flies with another
instructor who does not follow the principle instructors plan, it is a
problem. Often the INSTRUCTOR has a series of step by step lesson plans,
concentrating on mastering airwork, turns of all kinds, ground reference
maneuvers, airspeed control and is not ready for "landings" yet.
The student is happy because they are flying and working hard and
learning
the basics. But if the instructor is ill and another instructor subs a
problem arises.
#2 instructor may just say to the student, "You've got 8 hours, so let's
stay in the pattern and practice take-offs and landings."

This is the thing, though. Too many instructors do nothing except what
#2 instructor does -- and so their students never learn to fly.

I would say that one of the first things you want to do is ask a
potential instructor's other students how closely the instructor follows
the syllabus. There are several possible answers:

1) "What syllabus?" An instructor without a syllabus will not teach you
to fly. Flee from an instructor who does not use one.

2) "Step by step. If the weather does not allow us to do the next
lesson, we cancel." Not as bad as the first, but it will take a long
time to finish with this instructor, especially in the Pacific Northwest
where the weather is often bad.

3) "We started out using a syllabus, but lately I am just practicing
takeoffs and landings. I have 120 landings and I still am not getting it
right." You will not get them right, either, if you fly with this
instructor. He started out with good intentions, but for some reason he
has stopped instructing. He just likes riding in the airplane with his
students.

4) "We have a syllabus, but if the weather does not work for a
particular lesson, we do something else. If he has a substitute
instructor, he follows the syllabus, too." Good instructor with good
backup. You can bet he will have you fly with a check instructor from
time to time, too, just to confirm his own observations and to make sure
you get a fresh point of view.

I do not like instructors who are abusive -- an instructor should never
use foul language and nearly all of his criticism should be positive. It
is better to say "Try keeping your airspeed at 65 knots on final"
instead of "Your landings were lousy today," but it is a lot easier for
some instructors to say the latter instead of the former.



Good instructors ALWAYS, regardless of how the lesson went, end a lesson
with a positive note of praise for a student. You NEVER abuse a student
or take the lesson into negative territoty. This doesn't mean good CFI's
shouldn't criticize or correct. It means that all critiszm and
correcting should be done wrapped up in a positive presentation.
I can't ever remember letting a student end a lesson feeling despondent
or unfulfilled. There's simply no excuse or reason for this ever happening.
ALL student instruction should be positive instruction. If the student
screws something up, any good instructor should be able to deal with it
on a positive basis and without making a student feel bad in any way.
I'd fire a flight instructor working for me in a heartbeat for
approaching flight instruction in any other way than what CJ and I have
both commented on here.

--
Dudley Henriques

Chris L writes:
It appears that I can get the license in about 6 months if I take
lessons two to three times a week (Saturday, Sunday, Monday) for about
an hour each time.

When I did my private I took more than an hour for a lesson. (I split
my training between KPAO in California and KBED outside Boston, both
near busy class B airports.) I found that I got the most out of a
lesson by budgeting:
- 1/2 hour for a preflight (without the instructor)
- 2 hours for flying (includes about 15 minutes of taxi, runup, and
waiting in line for the runway)
- 1/2 hour for post-flying debriefing by the instructor (here is
what you need to think about/learn for next time)

I didn't always use that entire time budget, but having planned on
spending all that time on flying kept me from worrying about the next
thing on my schedule when I was supposed to be learning. Also, the
preflight and taxi time are fixed costs (aka, you can't rush them
without cutting corners), and I find it is good to amortize them over
a longer lesson. If you find that your brain fills up quickly you may
want a shorter lesson, if you find you are still refreshed and ready
to learn more at the end you may want to schedule longer ones.

Chris

On 2007-12-25 11:58:42 -0800, Chris L said:

Hello, I know virtually nothing about flying, but am planning on
getting a private flying license. I have already talked to a few of
the schools in and around the Tukwila/Renton Washington area, and want
to know which is the best all around school.

Far be it from me to say which flight school is best, but you might
want to check us out at PAVCO at Tacoma Narrows in Gig Harbor (I have
some loyalty to the place). The bridge toll might get kind of old,
though.

You have listed some schools that I would avoid on account of their
being too impersonal or too expensive. You have also listed some good
ones. You might want to check out Auburn, too.


So what should I do,
Christopher Lusardi

P.S.: It's all for fun and remotely work related. But, I can be able
to pretend that I will to become an astronaut some day. [[:-))

You should start learning to fly. You will never find the 'best' flight
school or instructor, of course. The grass is always greener somewhere
else. AFAIK PAVCO is the only local flight school that has actually
produced an astronaut. :-)
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On Dec 26, 7:12*pm, C J Campbell
wrote:
On 2007-12-25 11:58:42 -0800, Chris L said:

Hello, I know virtually nothing about flying, but am planning on
getting a private flying license. I have already talked to a few of
the schools in and around the Tukwila/Renton Washington area, and want
to know which is the best all around school.

Far be it from me to say which flight school is best, but you might
want to check us out at PAVCO at Tacoma Narrows in Gig Harbor (I have
some loyalty to the place). The bridge toll might get kind of old,
though.

You have listed some schools that I would avoid on account of their
being too impersonal or too expensive. You have also listed some good
ones. You might want to check out Auburn, too.



So what should I do,
ChristopherLusardi

P.S.: It's all for fun and remotely work related. But, I can be able
to pretend that I will to become an astronaut some day. [[:-))

You should start learning to fly. You will never find the 'best' flight
school or instructor, of course. The grass is always greener somewhere
else. AFAIK PAVCO is the only local flight school that has actually
produced an astronaut. :-)
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

Is that astronaut Love? He has a PhD in something like astronomy which
makes me shy away from his path.

Anyway, what is the bridge toll, and do they offer monthy tickets?

And, is it really just a coincidence that Pavco produced the only
astronaut?

Thank you,

On 2007-12-27 10:17:14 -0800, Chris L said:


Is that astronaut Love? He has a PhD in something like astronomy which
makes me shy away from his path.

No, it was Pete Siebold of SpaceShipOne fame. He did the FAA
certification flights for White Knight and several of the test flights
for SpaceShip One. He started out as a line guy at PAVCO and worked his
way up to CFI-I and MEI, eventually going to work for Rutan. Siebold
was supposed to make one of the final flights in SpaceShip One, but was
grounded because of a head cold.


Anyway, what is the bridge toll, and do they offer monthy tickets?

I believe it is $3.50, but you can get a Good To Go transponder that
reduces the toll to $1.75. There is no time limit or minimum number of
tolls that you have to use. The toll is charged only when going
eastbound, not westbound.


And, is it really just a coincidence that Pavco produced the only
astronaut?

Thank you,

Mike Pickett knows Burt Rutan and introduced Pete Siebold to him,
although not for that specific job. Originally, Siebold was just
supposed to fly Rutan's StarShip.

The school has been around for about thirty years, has a good safety
record, and is infested with many interesting characters, some of whom
did things like fly for Air America.

We require and use the Cessna syllabus.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On Dec 27, 10:24*pm, C J Campbell
wrote:
On 2007-12-27 10:17:14 -0800, Chris L said:

Is that astronaut Love? He has a PhD in something like astronomy which
makes me shy away from his path.

No, it was Pete Siebold of SpaceShipOne fame.

I want to thank everyone for helping me!

I've started studying the ASA Private Pilot DVD. The DVD appears to be
very straight forward. What should be my expectations. What is the
difference between getting the flying license and the DVD. In other
words, how much can I expect to get out of the DVDs. I am, currently,
planning on studying (almost memorizing) all my DVDs and then going
to the school. What do you think I should do?

I am waiting for the Kings DVDs to get to me. I'll start studying them
once I receive them.

Do you think I should first learn all of the ASA DVD then the Kings
DVD, or mix the DVDs up in some way.

Should I purchase the Gleim DVD. How much more will I learn with it?

Someone at ProFlight said if I want to save money to wait till good
weather (spring or summer) before flying. What do you think. Will it
save me money and also mean a long delay in getting the license.

As a student what are my limitations on when I can fly? How clear does
the weather have to be, and how do I know when I have the correct
weather?

I am leaning towards the Acuwings flying school because they offer 1
free hour (both for plane and instructor tagging along) each time I
purchase 10 hours.

That stuff I posted about an astronaut was only holiday cheer on my
part because I was going to the Museum of Flight (http://
www.museumofflight.org/).

Thank you,
Christopher Lusardi

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 16:30:00 -0800 (PST), Chris L
wrote:

What is the
difference between getting the flying license and the DVD

I think of it as the difference between going to a war movie and being
under enemy fire.

Still, I'm told by pilots I respect that flight simulators do cut down
on the flight time required to get certificated. The DVD of course is
not a flight sim, but it is a different way to cram knowledge into
your head, and you need that knowledge to pass the written exam. It
sounds as though you're planning to take a residential course, which
is very intense, so it might really help to have advance knowledge. My
lessons were spread out over a year to solo and another year to pass
the flight check (I was 67 when I started), so I'd forgotten
everything I learned in ground school by the time I was good to go.
With the DVD, of course, you can refresh as often as you like.


Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
new from HarperCollins www.FlyingTigersBook.com

Hello, I know virtually nothing about flying, but am planning on
getting a private flying license. I have already talked to a few of
the schools in and around the Tukwila/Renton Washington area, and want
to know which is the best all around school.

You've already received great advice about the specific schools in
your area. The only thing I would add is that you will be happier if
you find an older CFI with no aspirations for the airlines.
Especially now, with CFIs being plucked with as little as 250 hours.

Here are three real-world data point for you:

I was lucky enough to train with an "old-timer" who had "been there,
done that", had 20,000 hours in every imaginable aircraft -- and was
happy doing what he was doing. His entire being was focused on
teaching -- not getting to the next level.

My son had an interesting mix of instructors, doing most of his
training with a similar "old timer" (flies a '29 Travel Air on the
barnstorming network), but finishing up with a young guy who is
clearly on his way to the regionals. He actually enjoyed flying with
the young guy more (I think due to their closeness in age) -- but he
admits that he learned far more from the old guy.

My wife finished her ticket with the same CFI -- who jumped to the
regionals the same week that she took her checkride. Luckily, he was
a former banker who had changed careers, which gave him a much
different perspective than the 20-something year old CFI who is
straight-lining into the majors.

Of the people I know who never finished getting their ticket, I think
most of them ran into trouble with their CFI vanishing. Bottom line:
There are enough reasons to quit your training -- you don't need to
make your CFI one of them. Seek out the graybeard in the group.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Dec 27, 8:47*am, Jay Honeck wrote:

You've already received great advice about the specific schools in
your area. *The only thing I would add is that you will be happier if
you find an older CFI with no aspirations for the airlines.
Especially now, with CFIs being plucked with as little as 250 hours.

Chris, use caution here, Jay Honeck is not a CFI, he is a hotelist in
the Midwest. The fact of the mater is that if you have a good working
relationship with your instructor, his or her age is not important.


I was lucky enough to train with an "old-timer" who had "been there,
done that", had 20,000 hours in every imaginable aircraft -- and was
happy doing what he was doing. *His entire being was focused on
teaching -- not getting to the next level.

20,000 hours ? Jay you stud! No wonder you know everything .

My son had an interesting mix of instructors, doing most of his
training with a similar "old timer" (flies a '29 Travel Air on the
barnstorming network), but finishing up with a young guy who is
clearly on his way to the regionals.

OK, for the hundreth time, your son is a pilot, thanks for reminding
us.


* He actually enjoyed flying with
the young guy more (I think due to their closeness in age) -- but he
admits that he learned far more from the old guy.

Bashing the airline guys again.



My wife finished her ticket with the same CFI -- who jumped to the
regionals the same week that she took her checkride. *Luckily, he was
a former banker who had changed careers, which gave him a much
different perspective than the 20-something year old CFI who is
straight-lining into the majors.

Who ask about your wife?

Of the people I know who never finished getting their ticket, I think
most of them ran into trouble with their CFI vanishing. *Bottom line:
There are enough reasons to quit your training -- you don't need to
make your CFI one of them. *Seek out the graybeard in the group.

Arbitrary stuff.
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination" Shameless plug

"F. Baum" wrote

20,000 hours ? Jay you stud! No wonder you know everything .

I'm beginning to think F. Baum is a bertie the bunyip sock puppet.

In any case, the sport of Jay bashing has made me decide that this is a
poster I no longer need to read.
--
Jim in NC