French planes are crap

Mike wrote :

The F-22 would kill all of them before they knew it was there.

bla bla bla

Remember me when the Crotale french SAM and Shahine saudi SAM detected
the F117 during the 1st gulf war ...

--
_________________________________________
Pierre-Henri BARAS

Co-webmaster de French Fleet Air Arm
http://www.ffaa.net
Encyclopédie de l'Aviation sur le web
http://www.aviation-fr.info

"Alan Minyard" a écrit dans le message de news:
...

The Republic of Korea Air Force seem to think that the Rafale is superior
to
the F-15 and F-16, as well as the Su-35 and Eurofighter.

Oh, that must be why they bought the F-35 instead of the rafale.

Gee, they're gonna be disappointed when they get F-15Ks instead of
F-35s......

--
_________________________________________
Pierre-Henri BARAS

Co-webmaster de French Fleet Air Arm
http://www.ffaa.net
Encyclopédie de l'Aviation sur le web
http://www.aviation-fr.info

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:47:14 -0000, "killfile"
wrote:


"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
.. .
On 2 Nov 2003 19:13:22 -0800, (robert arndt) wrote:

Alan Minyard wrote in message
...
On 2 Nov 2003 02:39:53 -0800, (robert arndt)
wrote:

(Tom R. Rastell) wrote in message
.com...
because the French are frogs and frogs can´t fly!


Oh really? Then please explain why Americans were flying French a/c
in
WW1. Ever heard of the Lafayette Escadrille? Nieuport or Spad ring
any
bells? Moron.

Rob

Let's see, 85 years ago some US pilots flew French aircraft, so
current
French
aircraft must be wonderful. Really strange logic at work there.

Current French aircraft, while not exactly "crap", are not state of
the
art and
are clearly inferior to their US counterparts.

Al Minyard

Funny how the French had the Dewoitine D.520 and M.S.406 during the
first year of the war and how good they were. The M.S.406 while
inferior to the Me-109E still racked up 175 kills from 1939-40. The
D.520 OTOH was the best French fighter up until the surrender and was
certainly equal to the Spitfire and Me-109 of the time.
After WW2, the French sold many of their aircraft to the Israelis who
racked up more kills and got a lot of mileage out of the aircraft
against the Arabs: Ouragan, Mystere, Super Mystere, Vautour, and
Mirage.
Currently the French have the Mirage 2000 and Rafale, both very
capable aircraft.
You just don't like anything foreign Al.

Rob

Not when they are clearly inferior. The F-15, F-16, F-14. F-35 and F-22
are all clearly superior to anything ever produced in France. And
quoting unverified numbers from a war that France lost in record time
does little to bolster your case.

Look at the export sales of the Rafale compared to the export sales
of the F-35.

Al Minyard

The Republic of Korea Air Force seem to think that the Rafale is superior
to
the F-15 and F-16, as well as the Su-35 and Eurofighter.

Oh, that must be why they bought the F-35 instead of the rafale.

The clearest thing is that nothing is superior to the *price* of the F-22
... I'll certainly bet the six Rafales or Eurofighters you could get the
price of one F-22 against that lone F-22 in combat.

The F-22 would kill all of them before they knew it was there.

Al Minyard

YOU ARE ENTERING ... THE AL MINYARD ZONE

DO DO DOO DO DOO DO DO DOO

How is one F/A-22 going to kill six Rafales? If you ask any USAF pilot if
you'd get Six-Shots, Six-Kills with the AIM-120, they'd laugh in your face.

And don't start talking about dogfighting ... the F/A-22 is a tennis court
with wings. It has serious high-alpha stall problems and the thrust
vectoring is still not flight-certified. The Rafale would dance circles
around it.

Matt

In article ,
"killfile" wrote:

How is one F/A-22 going to kill six Rafales?

By calling on his two wingmen, of course.

Unless the Rafales are selling for less than $30 million each, of course.

Parts, support, and training included.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In message , Alan Minyard
writes
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:47:14 -0000, "killfile" wrote:
The clearest thing is that nothing is superior to the *price* of the F-22
... I'll certainly bet the six Rafales or Eurofighters you could get the
price of one F-22 against that lone F-22 in combat.

The F-22 would kill all of them before they knew it was there.

The Germans said that about the Me.262... unfortunately, being badly
outnumbered tends to end up with heavy casualties because the enemy
aircraft aren't just met in ideal engagements. Sometimes you meet enemy
aircraft when they drop penetrating bombs through hardened shelters and
runway intersections, or in the same raid when your 'stealthy' aircraft
is dirtied up with flaps and undercarriage down on approach or
departure.

Trouble is, you need to generate enough sorties to protect your own base
and _then_ generate offensive capability... which means you need
numbers, and the rising cost and falling procurement of the Raptor means
it'll be seriously stretched.

Odds are that none of its enemies will have the means or ability to
seriously challenge it, but then you could say the same about an
upgraded F-15 (which threat nation can seriously challenge the Eagle now
or in the credible future?) for a _lot_ less money.


--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

In article ,
"Paul J. Adam" wrote:

Trouble is, you need to generate enough sorties to protect your own base
and _then_ generate offensive capability... which means you need
numbers, and the rising cost and falling procurement of the Raptor means
it'll be seriously stretched.

That's only if you plan on using only one type of fighter, in small
numbers, for everything.

For airfield and short-range defense, you don't need a stealth plane as
much (although it's a very good force multiplier). We can keep using
upgraded F-15s and F-16s for that, and the F-35 when it comes on line.

For *offense*, though, the new-generation European fighters are going to
have a much more difficult time. There's not going to be that many of
them, either, at the rate they're cutting procurement.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

One more time,you lie Minyard,and you know it.
The problem for you is the Rafale is not made in the usa,but made in france.
What a shame!
Strictly the same aircraft made in your country you would say is the best
one actually in use.
Rafale is really superior to the us production.Not difficult,every fighter
you got at he moment has been
developped in the late 60's or in the 70's.
F.22 will be superior,and F.35 i honestly don't know.
The Mirage 2000 compares with the F.16,and the -5 series are really
advanced.






"Alan Minyard" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
On 2 Nov 2003 19:13:22 -0800, (robert arndt) wrote:

Alan Minyard wrote in message
. ..
On 2 Nov 2003 02:39:53 -0800, (robert arndt) wrote:

(Tom R. Rastell) wrote in message
. com...
because the French are frogs and frogs can´t fly!


Oh really? Then please explain why Americans were flying French a/c in
WW1. Ever heard of the Lafayette Escadrille? Nieuport or Spad ring any
bells? Moron.

Rob

Let's see, 85 years ago some US pilots flew French aircraft, so current
French
aircraft must be wonderful. Really strange logic at work there.

Current French aircraft, while not exactly "crap", are not state of the
art and
are clearly inferior to their US counterparts.

Al Minyard

Funny how the French had the Dewoitine D.520 and M.S.406 during the
first year of the war and how good they were. The M.S.406 while
inferior to the Me-109E still racked up 175 kills from 1939-40. The
D.520 OTOH was the best French fighter up until the surrender and was
certainly equal to the Spitfire and Me-109 of the time.
After WW2, the French sold many of their aircraft to the Israelis who
racked up more kills and got a lot of mileage out of the aircraft
against the Arabs: Ouragan, Mystere, Super Mystere, Vautour, and
Mirage.
Currently the French have the Mirage 2000 and Rafale, both very
capable aircraft.
You just don't like anything foreign Al.

Rob

Not when they are clearly inferior. The F-15, F-16, F-14. F-35 and F-22
are all clearly superior to anything ever produced in France. And
quoting unverified numbers from a war that France lost in record time
does little to bolster your case.

Look at the export sales of the Rafale compared to the export sales
of the F-35.

Al Minyard

Alan Minyard wrote in
:

On 2 Nov 2003 19:13:22 -0800, (robert arndt) wrote:

Alan Minyard wrote in message
...
On 2 Nov 2003 02:39:53 -0800, (robert arndt)
wrote:

(Tom R. Rastell) wrote in message
.com...
because the French are frogs and frogs can´t fly!


Oh really? Then please explain why Americans were flying French a/c
in WW1. Ever heard of the Lafayette Escadrille? Nieuport or Spad
ring any bells? Moron.

Rob

Let's see, 85 years ago some US pilots flew French aircraft, so
current French aircraft must be wonderful. Really strange logic at
work there.

Current French aircraft, while not exactly "crap", are not state of
the art and are clearly inferior to their US counterparts.

Al Minyard

Funny how the French had the Dewoitine D.520 and M.S.406 during the
first year of the war and how good they were. The M.S.406 while
inferior to the Me-109E still racked up 175 kills from 1939-40. The
D.520 OTOH was the best French fighter up until the surrender and was
certainly equal to the Spitfire and Me-109 of the time.
After WW2, the French sold many of their aircraft to the Israelis who
racked up more kills and got a lot of mileage out of the aircraft
against the Arabs: Ouragan, Mystere, Super Mystere, Vautour, and
Mirage.
Currently the French have the Mirage 2000 and Rafale, both very
capable aircraft.
You just don't like anything foreign Al.

Rob

Not when they are clearly inferior. The F-15, F-16, F-14. F-35 and
F-22 are all clearly superior to anything ever produced in France. And
quoting unverified numbers from a war that France lost in record time
does little to bolster your case.

Look at the export sales of the Rafale compared to the export sales
of the F-35.

Al Minyard


Al,

While the superior F-16 and F-15 were released into production and
'operational' they were actually severely handicapped. The much vaunted
F100 engine had severe restrictions imposed on it. Should the pilot
violate the operating procedures he would find himself cruising in a
very heavy glider. Not the most enjoyable scenario to encounter should
one find himself in combat, eh? Of course it was resolved effectively
with that high tech solution of de-rating the engine a significant
amount.

Contrast this the Mirage 2000 (comparable to the F-16), a fly-by-wire
aircraft released with absolutely no operational restrictions.

About the superiority of American aircraft: they are the best (at this
time). The US has the defense budget to prove it. As far as next best,
there are plenty of excellent aircraft produced and armed in the world
today, you just chose not recognize them.

Many of them are not as far behind as you think.


-Chuck

Alan Minyard wrote in message . ..
On 2 Nov 2003 02:39:53 -0800, (robert arndt) wrote:

(Tom R. Rastell) wrote in message . com...
because the French are frogs and frogs can´t fly!


Oh really? Then please explain why Americans were flying French a/c in
WW1. Ever heard of the Lafayette Escadrille? Nieuport or Spad ring any
bells? Moron.

Rob

Let's see, 85 years ago some US pilots flew French aircraft, so current French
aircraft must be wonderful. Really strange logic at work there.

Current French aircraft, while not exactly "crap", are not state of the art and
are clearly inferior to their US counterparts.


Tell me then, Al, how many years it will take until the U.S. military
has a plane in operational service that can compare with the Rafale?