If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#191
|
|||
|
|||
Why airplanes fly
|
#192
|
|||
|
|||
Why airplanes fly
|
#193
|
|||
|
|||
Why airplanes fly
Michael Ash wrote:
In rec.aviation.student Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Yes. I've trid it and the home sim feedback systems are a joke. Even sophisticated sims aren't great this way and I still can't see even the most sophisticated sims being anything more than an aid in teaching procedures. Seems like you ought to be able to get a fairly decent setup by using bungees to center the stick and having some motors on the bungees. Move them around to change the center if needed, tighten them to provide more recentering force at high speed. Anyone know how the real force feedback systems work and why my idea doesn't? Wouldn't be worth the trouble. No matter what you do with force feedback, unless you can come up with a way to duplicate the effect of dynamic pressure on control surfaces based on a varying airspeed and air density table, and for a specific aircraft to boot....you can't duplicate actual control pressures for a desk top simulator. -- Dudley Henriques |
#194
|
|||
|
|||
Why airplanes fly
In rec.aviation.student Dudley Henriques wrote:
Michael Ash wrote: In rec.aviation.student Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Yes. I've trid it and the home sim feedback systems are a joke. Even sophisticated sims aren't great this way and I still can't see even the most sophisticated sims being anything more than an aid in teaching procedures. Seems like you ought to be able to get a fairly decent setup by using bungees to center the stick and having some motors on the bungees. Move them around to change the center if needed, tighten them to provide more recentering force at high speed. Anyone know how the real force feedback systems work and why my idea doesn't? Wouldn't be worth the trouble. No matter what you do with force feedback, unless you can come up with a way to duplicate the effect of dynamic pressure on control surfaces based on a varying airspeed and air density table, and for a specific aircraft to boot....you can't duplicate actual control pressures for a desk top simulator. I imagine you could do a fairly decent job. A sim such as X-Plane has much of the data needed to come up with the right numbers. But then again, I don't know whether this is "fairly decent" as in something which just deceives you, or as in something which is actually worthwhile. In any case it's somewhat academic, since if the software doesn't support it then there's no point in having the hardware, and if there's no hardware the software won't support it.... If even the big iron sims don't do a good job, it should be a good indication that this problem is harder than it looks from the outside. -- Michael Ash Rogue Amoeba Software |
#195
|
|||
|
|||
Why airplanes fly
Michael Ash wrote:
In rec.aviation.student Dudley Henriques wrote: Michael Ash wrote: In rec.aviation.student Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Yes. I've trid it and the home sim feedback systems are a joke. Even sophisticated sims aren't great this way and I still can't see even the most sophisticated sims being anything more than an aid in teaching procedures. Seems like you ought to be able to get a fairly decent setup by using bungees to center the stick and having some motors on the bungees. Move them around to change the center if needed, tighten them to provide more recentering force at high speed. Anyone know how the real force feedback systems work and why my idea doesn't? Wouldn't be worth the trouble. No matter what you do with force feedback, unless you can come up with a way to duplicate the effect of dynamic pressure on control surfaces based on a varying airspeed and air density table, and for a specific aircraft to boot....you can't duplicate actual control pressures for a desk top simulator. I imagine you could do a fairly decent job. A sim such as X-Plane has much of the data needed to come up with the right numbers. But then again, I don't know whether this is "fairly decent" as in something which just deceives you, or as in something which is actually worthwhile. In any case it's somewhat academic, since if the software doesn't support it then there's no point in having the hardware, and if there's no hardware the software won't support it.... If even the big iron sims don't do a good job, it should be a good indication that this problem is harder than it looks from the outside. In my opinion, no desktop simulator in use at this time coupled with any controllers available for the intended purpose of replicating the controls of an airplane in flight is capable of the fidelity level necessary to duplicate the sensitive control "feel" absolutely critical to the learning curve of a pre-solo student pilot. -- Dudley Henriques |
#196
|
|||
|
|||
Why airplanes fly
Michael Ash wrote in
: In rec.aviation.student Dudley Henriques wrote: Michael Ash wrote: In rec.aviation.student Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Yes. I've trid it and the home sim feedback systems are a joke. Even sophisticated sims aren't great this way and I still can't see even the most sophisticated sims being anything more than an aid in teaching procedures. Seems like you ought to be able to get a fairly decent setup by using bungees to center the stick and having some motors on the bungees. Move them around to change the center if needed, tighten them to provide more recentering force at high speed. Anyone know how the real force feedback systems work and why my idea doesn't? Wouldn't be worth the trouble. No matter what you do with force feedback, unless you can come up with a way to duplicate the effect of dynamic pressure on control surfaces based on a varying airspeed and air density table, and for a specific aircraft to boot....you can't duplicate actual control pressures for a desk top simulator. I imagine you could do a fairly decent job. A sim such as X-Plane has much of the data needed to come up with the right numbers. But then again, I don't know whether this is "fairly decent" as in something which just deceives you, or as in something which is actually worthwhile. In any case it's somewhat academic, since if the software doesn't support it then there's no point in having the hardware, and if there's no hardware the software won't support it.... If even the big iron sims don't do a good job, it should be a good indication that this problem is harder than it looks from the outside. Well, the smoothest pilots i know can't fly a "good" sim. The mechanical ones can.. Says it all, really. Bertie |
#197
|
|||
|
|||
Why airplanes fly
On Feb 10, 6:53*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Michael Ash wrote : In rec.aviation.student Dudley Henriques wrote: Michael Ash wrote: In rec.aviation.student Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Yes. I've trid it and the home sim feedback systems are a joke. Even sophisticated sims aren't great this way and I still can't see even the most sophisticated sims being anything more than an aid in teaching procedures. Seems like you ought to be able to get a fairly decent setup by using bungees to center the stick and having some motors on the bungees. Move them around to change the center if needed, tighten them to provide more recentering force at high speed. Anyone know how the real force feedback systems work and why my idea doesn't? Wouldn't be worth the trouble. No matter what you do with force feedback, unless you can come up with a way to duplicate the effect of dynamic pressure on control surfaces based on a varying airspeed and air density table, and for a specific aircraft to boot....you can't duplicate actual control pressures for a desk top simulator. I imagine you could do a fairly decent job. A sim such as X-Plane has much of the data needed to come up with the right numbers. But then again, I don't know whether this is "fairly decent" as in something which just deceives you, or as in something which is actually worthwhile. In any case it's somewhat academic, since if the software doesn't support it then there's no point in having the hardware, and if there's no hardware the software won't support it.... If even the big iron sims don't do a good job, it should be a good indication that this problem is harder than it looks from the outside. Well, the smoothest pilots i know can't fly a "good" sim. The mechanical ones can.. Says it all, really. Bertie- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It's down to rainy day or otherwise IFR for me. Only time I do it. And I get bored really fast -- no matter how many add ons I jam in it. Doesn't hold a candle to the real thing. |
#198
|
|||
|
|||
Why airplanes fly
|
#199
|
|||
|
|||
Why airplanes fly
For the work I do on the sim program both for Microsoft and developers I
use strictly CH Products. I've found them to be quite dependable and I recommend them highly. I can second that recommendation. In 18 months of daily use, our "Kiwi" (a full-sized flight simulator that uses CH yoke and rudder pedals) has logged thousands of hours, with people from every age group. Given the abuse some of them have given the CH products, I'm frankly surprised at how well they've held up. The plastic collar that surrounds the metal shaft of the yoke broke after a woman exerted incredible force trying to TWIST the yoke back to flare, rather than simply pulling back -- but a simple application of J-B Weld (the greatest stuff in the universe, BTW) to reinforce the area has restored the yoke to full function. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#200
|
|||
|
|||
Why airplanes fly
"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:Jn6sj.29506$yE1.19771@attbi_s21: For the work I do on the sim program both for Microsoft and developers I use strictly CH Products. I've found them to be quite dependable and I recommend them highly. I can second that recommendation. In 18 months of daily use, our "Kiwi" (a full-sized flight simulator that uses CH yoke and rudder pedals) has logged thousands of hours, with people from every age group. Given the abuse some of them have given the CH products, I'm frankly surprised at how well they've held up. The plastic collar that surrounds the metal shaft of the yoke broke after a woman exerted incredible force trying to TWIST the yoke back to flare, rather than simply pulling back -- but a simple application of J-B Weld (the greatest stuff in the universe, BTW) to reinforce the area has restored the yoke to full function. Barf Bertie |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
New and Used Airplanes | [email protected] | Products | 0 | May 29th 07 05:02 PM |
How many GA airplanes... | john smith | Piloting | 2 | May 10th 06 05:19 PM |
Q On NYC Airplanes | John A. Weeks III | General Aviation | 3 | March 16th 06 12:35 PM |
AIRPLANES! | W P Dixon | Home Built | 10 | October 7th 04 11:28 AM |
E-bay airplanes | Paul Folbrecht | Owning | 11 | March 4th 04 12:00 AM |