Is this the death of GA

In article ,
says...


William Hung writes:

That's a lot of ifs Jay. Is the convenience, in this case really
worth it? Is your insurance company aware of this practice? My guess
is no. I would have to go with Matt on this one, Jay.

What percentage of refuelings of this type have ended in fire?

Insurance companies always want zero risk, for maximum profit. They don't
care how much it costs their clients.


In 1968, after ten joints and a few lines of white powder anyone could be
excused for saying things like that, totally dissociated from reality. . .

What's your excuse?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news3rwj.48557$9j6.45072@attbi_s22:

This is one rule that I believe is grounded in common sense.

Yep, there's always an example of some catastrophe that happened
somewhere that should make every civilized convenience illegal.

If any more evidence were requited that you are a complete idiot, this is
it.

Bertie

On Feb 24, 11:00 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

Is there a slight risk to fueling in an unheated, outdoor hangar with the
big door open? I don't know -- but if you use a grounding strap/cord, and
you use approved fueling techniques and equipment, and you pump the fuel
from a professional-grade tank/pump, can you even *measure* a risk that
small? Has any aircraft self-immolated while being properly fueled? Has
any car?

I grow weary of this country wringing its hands over crap like this, while
the real issues of the day aren't even discussed.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Risk is defined as probability x potential loss. So, despite there
being very little risk that my rifle will go off when I'm cleaning it,
I still never point it at anyone or anything that would be harmed.

The probability is low (I'm cleaning it, and thus have cleared it,
removed the bolt, etc), but the potential damage is death. Thus it's
risky.

So I don't skateboard -- the probability that I will fall and bust my
assets is near 100%, though the potential damage ranges from minor to
catastrophic (that falling on the railing with legs spread
thing !!!!).

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I hadn't thought through this
refueling-in-the-hangar thing much, but some of the replies make
sense. While the probability may be low (as evidenced by your
experience), the potential damage is very high -- lost airplanes (T-
Hangars are by definition multiple), buildings, equipment, tools,
cases of oil, Swimsuit Edition calendars -- the works.

And while it's true that "society" has become a bit too "worried"
about everything, perhaps we reasonable people (pilots) should make
every attempt to reduce the perception of risk. If a String of T-
hangars lights up the Iowa sky, think of the gleeful doom the local
news will engender.

"If you look behind me, Carlita, you will see the flames rising 200
FEET into the air, spreading a witches brew of toxic materials -- the
airport manager won't talk to me on camera, but we learned that the
each of the several dozen Cessnas parked inside are worth at least
$500,000, and each has about 800 gallons of HIGHLY FLAMMABLE JET fuel
on board. Whoa! Did you hear that? We'll move our cameras a bit..."

"Wow.. Scary stuff Jim -- we'll keep you updated with all the latest
from the scene..."



Dan

wrote:

"If you look behind me, Carlita, you will see the flames rising 200
FEET into the air, spreading a witches brew of toxic materials -- the
airport manager won't talk to me on camera, but we learned that the
each of the several dozen Cessnas parked inside are worth at least
$500,000, and each has about 800 gallons of HIGHLY FLAMMABLE JET fuel
on board. Whoa! Did you hear that? We'll move our cameras a bit..."

"Wow.. Scary stuff Jim -- we'll keep you updated with all the latest
from the scene..."


Not to mention the fact that the hangars probably won't ever be
rebuilt because of the lawsuits. The insurance Co. will refuse
to pay the loss because the airport encouraged fueling policies
that were known to be dangerous and contrary to fire codes.

Matt Whiting wrote:
total loss.

This is one rule that I believe is grounded in common sense.

Matt

Not only common sense but its written into the local fire codes
in virtually every city or town.

Fueling an aircraft in a hangar is irresponsible and dangerous.

Fueling an aircraft in a hangar is irresponsible and dangerous.

Ya know, Kontiki, normally I agree with your posts -- but this is just plain
crap.

Have you ever WORKED on a plane, in a shop? Have you ever had to de-fuel a
plane to work on it? Where do you think this happens?

I'll tell you where it happens -- in the shop hangar. They unscrew the
quick drain, stick a plastic funnel into a 5-gallon plastic jug, and let the
fuel drain. Then, when that jug is full, they quickly move another jug
under the funnel, dumping gas all over the hangar floor. This happens until
the tank is empty.

This goes on day after day, week after week, year after year, at hundreds of
airports across America. WITH THE DOOR CLOSED. God almighty, if we were
to believe your nonsense, the newspapers would be full of 5-alarm fires at
airports.

Now, you're telling me that refueling an airplane from a
professionally-built fuel truck, properly grounded, with the big door open,
is DANGEROUS? I find it hard that anyone so risk averse actually flies in
an airplane. Those things crash, you know.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Feb 27, 10:54 am, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
Now, you're telling me that refueling an airplane from a
professionally-built fuel truck, properly grounded, with the big door open,
is DANGEROUS? I find it hard that anyone so risk averse actually flies in
an airplane. Those things crash, you know.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I lost my model friends in a freak gasoline fight accident, ok?!


Derek

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:gJfxj.52124$9j6.21234@attbi_s22:

Fueling an aircraft in a hangar is irresponsible and dangerous.

Ya know, Kontiki, normally I agree with your posts -- but this is just
plain crap.

Have you ever WORKED on a plane, in a shop?


I have. you are an idiot.


Bertie

Jay Honeck wrote:

Now, you're telling me that refueling an airplane from a
professionally-built fuel truck, properly grounded, with the big door
open, is DANGEROUS? I find it hard that anyone so risk averse actually
flies in an airplane. Those things crash, you know.

Having spent a couple of years as an airport manager I am not
speaking out of ignorance. I'm surprised that you don't seem
to be able see the potential dangers. I strongly suggest that
you and the airport manager have a chat with you local fire
marshal, your fuel supplier and your insurance underwriter before
you continue that activity.

It is dangerous to even fuel a lawn mower in your garage because
of the enclosed space, and the risk of a devastating fire in
the even of a fuel spill.

Check with any authority on the subject and see if they don't
tell you the same thing.

Good luck.

Having spent a couple of years as an airport manager I am not
speaking out of ignorance. I'm surprised that you don't seem
to be able see the potential dangers. I strongly suggest that
you and the airport manager have a chat with you local fire
marshal, your fuel supplier and your insurance underwriter before
you continue that activity.

It's not just me doing it -- it's our FBO. And a dozen or more aircraft
owners on our field alone. And at every other field I've ever been at. But
I know that takes the fun out of the discussion.

I'm not saying that the lawyers, insurance companies, professional
hand-wringers, and other lower forms of life won't find "risk" in fueling in
an open hangar. These are the same folks who install audible walk signals,
cancel school when it snows 2 inches, and make regulations that render an
aircraft "unairworthy" when an inherently inaccurate fuel gauge goes tits
up.

I'm saying that it's NOT unsafe, when done by competent people with
professional grade equipment. It's been done for decades, without mishap.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"kontiki" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:

Now, you're telling me that refueling an airplane from a
professionally-built fuel truck, properly grounded, with the big door
open, is DANGEROUS? I find it hard that anyone so risk averse actually
flies in an airplane. Those things crash, you know.

Having spent a couple of years as an airport manager I am not
speaking out of ignorance. I'm surprised that you don't seem
to be able see the potential dangers. I strongly suggest that
you and the airport manager have a chat with you local fire
marshal, your fuel supplier and your insurance underwriter before
you continue that activity.

It is dangerous to even fuel a lawn mower in your garage because
of the enclosed space, and the risk of a devastating fire in
the even of a fuel spill.

Check with any authority on the subject and see if they don't
tell you the same thing.

Good luck.