Airparks; Living On The Beaten Path?

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 08:09:54 -0700 (PDT), cavedweller wrote:

I apologize for thinking you were pre-flight student, but your few hundred
hours of flying doesn't show in your concerns in this thread.

Hmmmm. Perhaps the reason for your confusion is:

"WJRFlyBoy
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More options Nov 22 2007, 3:16 pm
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student, rec.aviation.piloting
From: WJRFlyBoy
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 15:16:22 -0500
Local: Thurs, Nov 22 2007 3:16 pm
Subject: Advice Requested
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It's time to stop talking and start doing so I would appreciate any
advice
on how to assess a flight school, instructor, pricing and any other
suggestions.

See signature below.

"I hesitate to add to this discussion because I'm not an instructor,
just a rather slow student who's not qualified to give advice that
might kill someone."

On Mar 17, 5:03*pm, WJRFlyBoy wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 08:09:54 -0700 (PDT), cavedweller wrote:
I apologize for thinking you were pre-flight student, but your few hundred
hours of flying doesn't show in your concerns in this thread.

Hmmmm. *Perhaps the reason for your confusion is:

"WJRFlyBoy
View profile
* * More options Nov 22 2007, 3:16 pm
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student, rec.aviation.piloting
From: WJRFlyBoy
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 15:16:22 -0500
Local: Thurs, Nov 22 2007 3:16 pm
Subject: Advice Requested
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| Report this message | Find messages by this author
It's time to stop talking and start doing so I would appreciate any
advice
on how to assess a flight school, instructor, pricing and any other
suggestions.

See signature below.

"I hesitate to add to this discussion because I'm not an instructor,
just a rather slow student who's not qualified to give advice that
might kill someone."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But you said, upthread, "..but it's not like I haven't had a few
hundred hours in single/twin in the left seat." Sorry to quibble but
I confuse easily, you see.....

cavedweller wrote:
On Mar 17, 5:03 pm, WJRFlyBoy wrote:

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 08:09:54 -0700 (PDT), cavedweller wrote:

I apologize for thinking you were pre-flight student, but your few hundred
hours of flying doesn't show in your concerns in this thread.

Hmmmm. Perhaps the reason for your confusion is:

"WJRFlyBoy
View profile
More options Nov 22 2007, 3:16 pm
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student, rec.aviation.piloting
From: WJRFlyBoy
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 15:16:22 -0500
Local: Thurs, Nov 22 2007 3:16 pm
Subject: Advice Requested
Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original
| Report this message | Find messages by this author
It's time to stop talking and start doing so I would appreciate any
advice
on how to assess a flight school, instructor, pricing and any other
suggestions.

See signature below.

"I hesitate to add to this discussion because I'm not an instructor,
just a rather slow student who's not qualified to give advice that
might kill someone."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


But you said, upthread, "..but it's not like I haven't had a few
hundred hours in single/twin in the left seat." Sorry to quibble but
I confuse easily, you see.....




MS Flight Sim

In article ,
cavedweller wrote:

But you said, upthread, "..but it's not like I haven't had a few
hundred hours in single/twin in the left seat." Sorry to quibble but
I confuse easily, you see.....

I know a CFII who always flies from the right seat, even when solo.
So his wife has probably close to a thousand hours in the left
seat (but never did get her pilot certificate).

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:17:57 -0700 (PDT), cavedweller wrote:

See signature below.

"I hesitate to add to this discussion because I'm not an instructor,
just a rather slow student who's not qualified to give advice that
might kill someone."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But you said, upthread, "..but it's not like I haven't had a few
hundred hours in single/twin in the left seat." Sorry to quibble but
I confuse easily, you see.....

That's correct, I have.
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!
I hesitate to add to this discussion because I'm not an instructor,
just a rather slow student who's not qualified to give advice that
might kill someone.

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:19:45 -0600, Neil Gould wrote:

Having read many of your posts, I have to agree with Morgans'
suggestion that you argue less and listen more. Once you start your
flight training you will find that many of your current concerns in
areas such as this are unwarranted. [...]

I appreciate the thought Neil but it's not like I haven't had a few
hundred hours in single/twin in the left seat.

I apologize for thinking you were pre-flight student, but your few hundred
hours of flying doesn't show in your concerns in this thread.

No apologies necessary.

In that
amount of time, it would seem to me that you would have flown into
airports with far less tolerance than 60' off centerline. To me, 60' is as
good as a mile, since the wingspans of the planes I fly are far less than
that and many runways have trees and other obstructions closer than those
houses.

A few, not many even though 1/2 the T/Os and lands were in very small
eown USA.

First, most everyone assumed that I have some kind of irrational
problem with airparks. The irrationality I find is that few, one or
two, wanted to discuss the very real possibilities of serious person
and property damage. Let's take the recent Velocity-RV incident, put
that in an airpark and you have major, potential carnage.

From my perspective, and those of several others, the issues are risk
management and judgement rather than some inherently difficult
circumstance of the layout you described. As another person pointed out
during this discussion, those living in an airpark would get a lot of
practice flying into and out of that strip, which further reduces the
risks.

Best,

Overall, I believe that you are correct, surely that would be the ase if
your own house was on the strip. lol

Btw, the layout is interesting part of the airpark development. There
may be a higher justification for concern if planes have to use the
developments' road system, instead of a segregated access for planes
only.
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!
I hesitate to add to this discussion because I'm not an instructor,
just a rather slow student who's not qualified to give advice that
might kill someone.

In article ,
WJRFlyBoy wrote:



First, most everyone assumed that I have some kind of irrational problem
with airparks. The irrationality I find is that few, one or two, wanted
to discuss the very real possibilities of serious person and property
damage. Let's take the recent Velocity-RV incident, put that in an
airpark and you have major, potential carnage.

Everyone, almost, assumed that I was looking to find serious and
conclusive faults to the airpark lifestyle. Here's a heads up. If anyone
had simply asked, instead of assuming, what my interest level is, and
why, they would have gotten the straight answer.

I develop real estate with a slant to the niche, luxury market place
(beach, bay, waterfront at the present.) In my area of SW FL, there is
only one airpark and, imo, it's not up to what folks want.

The picture that I am getting is that "WJRFlyBoy" has a vested interest
in shutting down the airpark at North Captiva. Just how many new
(expe$sive) home$ can he build there if he can force the place to close?

In a previous posting I recited one of my criteria for an airpark place
to live: "Big enough to defend itself when the Philistines attack." Is
"WJRFlyBoy" one of those Philistines?

North Captiva is small, apparently with only 20-30 homes there. The
residents would have to shell out a lot of money in lawyers' fees if
somebody mounted a strong movement against them. The Chicken Littles
would pour out of the woodwork, crying "The sky is FALLING!" In steps
Mr. Foxy Loxy, promising to develop houses on the site, if only they can
get rid of those pesky, dangerous airplanes.





Pilots complain about the public's misconceptions about airparks and air
safety. Chicken and egg, I have sat in way too many pilot-public debates
where both sides are at odds and are carrying attitudes to those
discussions. This thread is a very good example.


So have I, when the players behind the scene are developers.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news
So have I, when the players behind the scene are developers.

Buncha developers getting their asses handed to them in Oregon. They came
out, developed everything--still are--as fast as possible pretty much ruined
the landscape. From the tree nursery I grew up on up on the hill east of
Troutdale, you can see the development spreading across the landscape like
mold on cheese. The first wave is bulldozers and homes most Oregonians
can't afford. The second wave involves gang grafitti, increased vandalism
and armed robbery, rising crime statistics, falling property values and huge
new homes all around our farm built by the people who "develop" Portland.

But, hey, I have an 1951 800-square-foot home appraised at $160,000 and gang
activity a mile or so down the road, so, we're genuinely Californicated and
ought to be thankful for their plundering of the community. Property
values are staying up out here but they'll fall because none of the locals
can afford to live here anymore and people from out of state can't sell
their land and move here cheaply.

They shut down NWPilot's historical old grass strip airport for development.
Last time I drove by, it's closed, but the field itself is still
undeveloped. 'Course with the huge condos all around so close to the
airport that they required red lights on the roof, it's no surprise that
complaints against the airport exploded and the outside developers were able
to make a case to shut it down.

-c

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:20:12 -0700, gatt wrote:

Buncha developers getting their asses handed to them in Oregon. They came
out, developed everything--still are--as fast as possible pretty much ruined
the landscape. From the tree nursery I grew up on up on the hill east of
Troutdale, you can see the development spreading across the landscape like
mold on cheese. The first wave is bulldozers and homes most Oregonians
can't afford. The second wave involves gang grafitti, increased vandalism
and armed robbery, rising crime statistics, falling property values and huge
new homes all around our farm built by the people who "develop" Portland.

Not so much the case in FL but I have seen the same kind of disdain for
the environment and it is a f***ing shame.

They shut down NWPilot's historical old grass strip airport for development.
Last time I drove by, it's closed, but the field itself is still
undeveloped. 'Course with the huge condos all around so close to the
airport that they required red lights on the roof, it's no surprise that
complaints against the airport exploded and the outside developers were able
to make a case to shut it down.

-c

The airport/airpark business is a tough development mark to hit. It is
highly specialized, noise, post 9/11 fears, drug trafficking, high
liabilities, difficult financing, the list is long.

On the flip side, there are a lot of airports For Sale.
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!
I hesitate to add to this discussion because I'm not an instructor,
just a rather slow student who's not qualified to give advice that
might kill someone.

"WJRFlyBoy" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:20:12 -0700, gatt wrote:

Buncha developers getting their asses handed to them in Oregon.

Not so much the case in FL but I have seen the same kind of disdain for
the environment and it is a f***ing shame.

Yeah. I didn't mean this to be an attack on developers as a whole, but,
there are some real predatorial land-raper dirtbags out here that came up
with a bunch of money and screwed a whole lot of people out of their own,
leaving the local economy and culture to deal with the debris. In our
neighborhood they got bought up a bunch of land, got approval to subdivide
lots, built and sold giant snouthouses and now the neighborhood is twice as
crowded, property values are dropping and these guys have long ago sold out,
collected their cash and moved on to plunder somebody else's community.

The airport/airpark business is a tough development mark to hit. It is
highly specialized, noise, post 9/11 fears, drug trafficking, high
liabilities, difficult financing, the list is long.

Fascinating that "post 9/11 fears" and drug trafficking are concerns. The
latter could be said for low-rent housing, condos, college apartments, etc,
but the 9/11 thing is weird. I'm positive there's more methamphetamine and
marijuana trafficing in the hundreds or thousands lower-middle-class
apartments that have popped up around Evergreen than there was coming
through the airstrip itself.

-c