Airparks; Living On The Beaten Path?

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:19:34 -0700, gatt wrote:

The airport/airpark business is a tough development mark to hit. It is
highly specialized, noise, post 9/11 fears, drug trafficking, high
liabilities, difficult financing, the list is long.

Fascinating that "post 9/11 fears" and drug trafficking are concerns. The
latter could be said for low-rent housing, condos, college apartments, etc,
but the 9/11 thing is weird. I'm positive there's more methamphetamine and
marijuana trafficing in the hundreds or thousands lower-middle-class
apartments that have popped up around Evergreen than there was coming
through the airstrip itself.

I'm sure your right. Relevance to public impressions, none.

Take for instance Immakolee Airport. Because it has a FTZ, and a couple
of busts, the public impression is that it's part Mena, part Islamic
stronghold. (the latter from several Middle Eastern owners who have drop
warehouses there.

Public impressions vote.
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!
I hesitate to add to this discussion because I'm not an instructor,
just a rather slow student who's not qualified to give advice that
might kill someone.

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:19:34 -0700, gatt wrote:

Buncha developers getting their asses handed to them in Oregon.

Not so much the case in FL but I have seen the same kind of disdain for
the environment and it is a f***ing shame.

Yeah. I didn't mean this to be an attack on developers as a whole, but,
there are some real predatorial land-raper dirtbags out here that came up
with a bunch of money and screwed a whole lot of people out of their own,
leaving the local economy and culture to deal with the debris. In our
neighborhood they got bought up a bunch of land, got approval to subdivide
lots, built and sold giant snouthouses and now the neighborhood is twice as
crowded, property values are dropping and these guys have long ago sold out,
collected their cash and moved on to plunder somebody else's community.

Then let me step up and tell you that land developers, a community in
which I muck around in, is full of swarthy corporations and individuals
who could care less about the environmental issue /other/ than how to
get around them. In FL, there are loopholes all over the place. How do I
know? Because we have formed our own ecoscience group to deal with the
Army Corp, the water districts, the DEP, NOAA, USWLF, ad infinitum.

We hold accountability to our processes. Airparks appear to be a
possible development area where we can apply that accountability and
have potential for profits.
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!
I hesitate to add to this discussion because I'm not an instructor,
just a rather slow student who's not qualified to give advice that
might kill someone.

gatt wrote:
"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news

So have I, when the players behind the scene are developers.


Buncha developers getting their asses handed to them in Oregon. They came
out, developed everything--still are--as fast as possible pretty much ruined
the landscape. From the tree nursery I grew up on up on the hill east of
Troutdale, you can see the development spreading across the landscape like
mold on cheese. The first wave is bulldozers and homes most Oregonians
can't afford. The second wave involves gang grafitti, increased vandalism
and armed robbery, rising crime statistics, falling property values and huge
new homes all around our farm built by the people who "develop" Portland.

But, hey, I have an 1951 800-square-foot home appraised at $160,000 and gang
activity a mile or so down the road, so, we're genuinely Californicated and
ought to be thankful for their plundering of the community. Property
values are staying up out here but they'll fall because none of the locals
can afford to live here anymore and people from out of state can't sell
their land and move here cheaply.

They shut down NWPilot's historical old grass strip airport for development.
Last time I drove by, it's closed, but the field itself is still
undeveloped. 'Course with the huge condos all around so close to the
airport that they required red lights on the roof, it's no surprise that
complaints against the airport exploded and the outside developers were able
to make a case to shut it down.

-c




Where abouts are you located, gatt?

We are looking at a possible move up to the Portland area this summer.


Richard

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...

They shut down NWPilot's historical old grass strip airport for
development. Last time I drove by, it's closed, but the field itself is
still undeveloped. 'Course with the huge condos all around so close to
the airport that they required red lights on the roof, it's no surprise
that complaints against the airport exploded and the outside developers
were able to make a case to shut it down.


Where abouts are you located, gatt?

We are looking at a possible move up to the Portland area this summer.

East of Portland, a few miles from Troutdale Aiport at the mouth of the
Columbia Gorge. Excellent airport. Portland's expensive right now but
the housing market is flattening. email me at gatt at juggerbot dot com
if you have any questions about moving.

-chris

gatt wrote:
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...


They shut down NWPilot's historical old grass strip airport for
development. Last time I drove by, it's closed, but the field itself is
still undeveloped. 'Course with the huge condos all around so close to
the airport that they required red lights on the roof, it's no surprise
that complaints against the airport exploded and the outside developers
were able to make a case to shut it down.


Where abouts are you located, gatt?

We are looking at a possible move up to the Portland area this summer.


East of Portland, a few miles from Troutdale Aiport at the mouth of the
Columbia Gorge. Excellent airport. Portland's expensive right now but
the housing market is flattening. email me at gatt at juggerbot dot com
if you have any questions about moving.

-chris



Sent email.

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:00:14 -0400, Orval Fairbairn wrote:

I develop real estate with a slant to the niche, luxury market place
(beach, bay, waterfront at the present.) In my area of SW FL, there is
only one airpark and, imo, it's not up to what folks want.

The picture that I am getting is that "WJRFlyBoy" has a vested interest
in shutting down the airpark at North Captiva. Just how many new
(expe$sive) home$ can he build there if he can force the place to close?

None would be my answer. The last thing I would want is to

1) have my named attached to a closing then
2) Have my name attached to a new development.
3) Raise public (incorrect) perceptions to the safety issues
4) Have my name attached to a new development.

In a previous posting I recited one of my criteria for an airpark place
to live: "Big enough to defend itself when the Philistines attack." Is
"WJRFlyBoy" one of those Philistines?

lol

North Captiva is small, apparently with only 20-30 homes there.

Many more than that.

The
residents would have to shell out a lot of money in lawyers' fees if
somebody mounted a strong movement against them.

They got it, I doubt there are any homes under $1M

The Chicken Littles
would pour out of the woodwork, crying "The sky is FALLING!" In steps
Mr. Foxy Loxy, promising to develop houses on the site, if only they can
get rid of those pesky, dangerous airplanes.

So much for the above, Orval.
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

In article ,
WJRFlyBoy wrote:

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:00:14 -0400, Orval Fairbairn wrote:

I develop real estate with a slant to the niche, luxury market place
(beach, bay, waterfront at the present.) In my area of SW FL, there is
only one airpark and, imo, it's not up to what folks want.

The picture that I am getting is that "WJRFlyBoy" has a vested interest
in shutting down the airpark at North Captiva. Just how many new
(expe$sive) home$ can he build there if he can force the place to close?

None would be my answer. The last thing I would want is to

1) have my named attached to a closing then
2) Have my name attached to a new development.
3) Raise public (incorrect) perceptions to the safety issues
4) Have my name attached to a new development.

In a previous posting I recited one of my criteria for an airpark place
to live: "Big enough to defend itself when the Philistines attack." Is
"WJRFlyBoy" one of those Philistines?

lol

North Captiva is small, apparently with only 20-30 homes there.

Many more than that.

The
residents would have to shell out a lot of money in lawyers' fees if
somebody mounted a strong movement against them.

They got it, I doubt there are any homes under $1M

The Chicken Littles
would pour out of the woodwork, crying "The sky is FALLING!" In steps
Mr. Foxy Loxy, promising to develop houses on the site, if only they can
get rid of those pesky, dangerous airplanes.

So much for the above, Orval.

If you are telling the truth, please accept my apologies.

I have seen too many airport battles where developers have stirred
things up withthe "natives" in order to destroy airports in the name of
"safety."

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

On Mar 17, 7:32*pm, Orval Fairbairn
wrote:
In article ,





*WJRFlyBoy wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:00:14 -0400, Orval Fairbairn wrote:

*I develop real estate with a slant to the niche, luxury market place
(beach, bay, waterfront at the present.) In my area of SW FL, there is
only one airpark and, imo, it's not up to what folks want.

The picture that I am getting is that "WJRFlyBoy" has a vested interest
in shutting down the airpark at North Captiva. Just how many new
(expe$sive) home$ can he build there if he can force the place to close?

None would be my answer. The last thing I would want is to

1) have my named attached to a closing then
2) Have my name attached to a new development.
3) Raise public (incorrect) perceptions to the safety issues
4) Have my name attached to a new development.

In a previous posting I recited one of my criteria for an airpark place
to live: "Big enough to defend itself when the Philistines attack." *Is
"WJRFlyBoy" one of those Philistines?

lol

North Captiva is small, apparently with only 20-30 homes there.

Many more than that.

The
residents would have to shell out a lot of money in lawyers' fees if
somebody mounted a strong movement against them.

They got it, I doubt there are any homes under $1M

The Chicken Littles
would pour out of the woodwork, crying "The sky is FALLING!" In steps
Mr. Foxy Loxy, promising to develop houses on the site, if only they can
get rid of those pesky, dangerous airplanes.

So much for the above, Orval.

If you are telling the truth, please accept my apologies.

I have seen too many airport battles where developers have stirred
things up withthe "natives" in order to destroy airports in the name of
"safety."

--
Remove _'s *from email address to talk to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Telling the truth....don't think he has a clue about what the truth
is. Showed up on the student pilot group back in November wanting
information of taking lessons. Then he claims several hundred hours
in the "left" seat. Turns out that he still hasn't started taking
lessons much less having time as PIC in any seat. See one of his
posts from Feb 28 below.

================================================== =========


1. WJRFlyBoy View profile
More options Feb 28, 4:11 am


Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student, rec.aviation.piloting
From: WJRFlyBoy
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 04:11:04 -0500
Local: Thurs, Feb 28 2008 4:11 am
Subject: The Differences Between PPLicensing And Learning
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
I have been reading the various threads about spins, forced landings,
etc
and talking with CFIs. The road to a PPL is preset in requirements by
FAA.
I see that most people are happy to do nothing more than that.
Outside
of
the cost factors, I find this much more than curious considering the
consequences. You can get killed, that one keeps jumping out at me


I am asking the group for assistance in developing a list of
instructional
and solo experiences, testing, mandatory reading.....if you ran the
FAA,
what would you require in a near-perfect world that a PPL would
require? I
am a zero-hour wannabe pilot FYI


For a start, I won't begin my first instruction until I can do the
following:


Pass all tests with a 95% minimum
Handle with ease all traffic control and similar commo
Dissect the anatomy of my training aircraft
Understand what and how the instrumentation works (shortcomings
included)
Own all the fundamentally necessary flight gear (i.e carry-ons in
flight
bag or on person)
Obtain hours in flight simulation
More...enough for now.


TIA. The group is an extremely valuable resource; I sincerely doubt I
would
be so focused and confident without your past, present and future
work
here.
--
================================================== ======

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:30:47 -0700 (PDT), BobR wrote:

I am asking the group for assistance in developing a list of
instructional
and solo experiences, testing, mandatory reading.....if you ran the
FAA,
what would you require in a near-perfect world that a PPL would
require? I
am a zero-hour wannabe pilot FYI

Note sig below.

I hesitate to add to this discussion because I'm not an instructor,
just a rather slow student who's not qualified to give advice that
might kill someone.

In article
,
Orval Fairbairn wrote:

In article ,
WJRFlyBoy wrote:

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:00:14 -0400, Orval Fairbairn wrote:

I develop real estate with a slant to the niche, luxury market place
(beach, bay, waterfront at the present.) In my area of SW FL, there is
only one airpark and, imo, it's not up to what folks want.

The picture that I am getting is that "WJRFlyBoy" has a vested interest
in shutting down the airpark at North Captiva. Just how many new
(expe$sive) home$ can he build there if he can force the place to close?

None would be my answer. The last thing I would want is to

1) have my named attached to a closing then
2) Have my name attached to a new development.
3) Raise public (incorrect) perceptions to the safety issues
4) Have my name attached to a new development.

In a previous posting I recited one of my criteria for an airpark place
to live: "Big enough to defend itself when the Philistines attack." Is
"WJRFlyBoy" one of those Philistines?

lol

North Captiva is small, apparently with only 20-30 homes there.

Many more than that.

The
residents would have to shell out a lot of money in lawyers' fees if
somebody mounted a strong movement against them.

They got it, I doubt there are any homes under $1M

The Chicken Littles
would pour out of the woodwork, crying "The sky is FALLING!" In steps
Mr. Foxy Loxy, promising to develop houses on the site, if only they can
get rid of those pesky, dangerous airplanes.

So much for the above, Orval.

If you are telling the truth, please accept my apologies.

I have seen too many airport battles where developers have stirred
things up withthe "natives" in order to destroy airports in the name of
"safety."

In this county, we've one airport closed down (and is now a shopping
center that's doing barely OK), restricted operations at another, and
we're watching the county supervisors trying yet again to shut down the
largest GA airport that takes some of the pressure off the bigger nearby
international airport.

The same county supervisors who OK'd development adjacent to the GA
field, and are now using that development (large shopping mall) as a
reason that the airport is too dangerous to keep in operation.

It's a revenue enhancement issue at bottom.