How much longer?

On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 16:38:30 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

You can't blame environmentalists for everything you don't like. Over the
last almost eight years I haven't noticed any environmentalists running
the show in Washington. Quite the opposite, in fact, but the price of oil
continues to climb, obviously due to factors other than your phantom
environmentalists.

Reality check he Politicians in Washington don't run the country --
bureaucrats (who persist from election cycle to election cycle) do.
Whether it's Republicrats or Democrans matters not, in the short term.

Over the last forty years, environmentalists have innocently and quietly
influenced the wording and structure of our regulations in a way that has
ultimately made it quite impossible to address our current energy issues.
It's all been innocuous, and "for the children" -- but it's completely
hog-tied us now that we really ARE in an energy bind.

Horse hockey.

We've painted ourselves into a corner by building an economy based on
unrenewable, cheap energy.


Which, of course, anyone who knows the "Law of Unintended Consequences"
predicted long ago.

Anyone knowing the law of supply and demand, you mean.

On 2008-04-09, Jay Honeck wrote:
Over the last forty years, environmentalists have innocently and quietly
influenced the wording and structure of our regulations in a way that has
ultimately made it quite impossible to address our current energy issues.

That's patently untrue.

Environmental regulation, on the other hand, has at least made those of
us who have oil refineries in their back yard a reasonable quality of
life.

It's all been innocuous, and "for the children" -- but it's completely
hog-tied us now that we really ARE in an energy bind.

It's for the adults, too. I've lived in an oil town, and even with the
environmental regulations we have today, the sky still turns green over
La Porte, and after flying a clean aircraft for a half hour, you land
and there's a film of gunk adhering to the leading edges of everything.
This is Texas City, Baytown, La Porte and most of the east side of
Houston today, not a story from antiquity. If you're flying the ILS into
Galveston, you can do without a marker beacon in your panel - the air
gets a unique stench as you approach the outer marker (and for most of
the rest of the approach). Texas City residents just have to live with
that stench.

The examiner I had for my instrument rating checkride came from Beaumont.
He's the lived the longest out of any member of his recent family - 50
years old. When he was a kid growing up, the rivers used to catch fire.

If that's what you really want, are you prepared to live in an oil town?
It's terribly easy to sit in rural Iowa and decree that oil towns should
be cancerous armpits. Having lived in an oil town, I think the
environmental regulations aren't tight enough.

Why don't you campaign locally to get oil refineries set up in Iowa
City?

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

Dylan,

If that's what you really want, are you prepared to live in an oil town?
It's terribly easy to sit in rural Iowa and decree that oil towns should
be cancerous armpits. Having lived in an oil town, I think the
environmental regulations aren't tight enough.


Dammit, you're gonna make him lose the love for the group again.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert wrote in
:

Dylan,

If that's what you really want, are you prepared to live in an oil town?
It's terribly easy to sit in rural Iowa and decree that oil towns should
be cancerous armpits. Having lived in an oil town, I think the
environmental regulations aren't tight enough.


Dammit, you're gonna make him lose the love for the group again.


ewww, the image that just conjured up...

Shudder..

Bertie

On 2008-04-10, Dylan Smith wrote:
It's for the adults, too. I've lived in an oil town, and even with the
environmental regulations we have today, the sky still turns green over
La Porte, and after flying a clean aircraft for a half hour, you land
and there's a film of gunk adhering to the leading edges of everything.
This is Texas City, Baytown, La Porte and most of the east side of
Houston today, not a story from antiquity. If you're flying the ILS into
Galveston, you can do without a marker beacon in your panel - the air
gets a unique stench as you approach the outer marker (and for most of
the rest of the approach). Texas City residents just have to live with
that stench.

I lived in Houston well past my 40th birthday. I learned to fly out of
Ellington Field, and flew back and forth to Galveston to practice. I didn't
notice any of this.

I'd be happy to have a refinery in Fairmont. It won't happen, though, as the
regulatory climate in Minnesota is extremely anti-oil.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

On 2008-04-10, Jay Maynard wrote:
I lived in Houston well past my 40th birthday. I learned to fly out of
Ellington Field, and flew back and forth to Galveston to practice. I didn't
notice any of this.

You must be quite unobservant. The Ellington field area is quite near
refineryland. From Houston Gulf, where I was based (until it closed
down), on a clear day looking north over Clear Lake, the air quite
obviously had a green tinge (more so if there was a temperature
inversion). The smell is very strong if you drive up to La Porte
airport past the refineries themselves. Looking south to Texas City, you
could often see a greenish haze there too, although not as dense as the
La Porte/Belaire/Baytown area. Our aircraft had a nice clean paint job
and lots of polished surfaces, the film of light brown gunk on all the
leading edges soon became noticable.

If you couldn't smell the outer marker when approaching Galveston then
you've no sense of smell or were remarkably unobservant. In League City
where I lived, when the wind was out of the north the smell of
petrochemicals was very noticable, and nearly everyone commented about
the smelly air.

Whenever I go to Houston now, the smell when you leave the terminal at
IAH is noticable, even though that's some distance away from the
main refinery areas. I never used to notice it that far out when I
actually lived there, probably because that's just how the air was and I
didn't really notice it any more.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

On 2008-04-10, Dylan Smith wrote:
Our aircraft had a nice clean paint job and lots of polished surfaces, the
film of light brown gunk on all the leading edges soon became noticable.

This wasn't an issue for any of the aircraft in the Ellington Field Aero
Club for as long as I was a member.

If you couldn't smell the outer marker when approaching Galveston then
you've no sense of smell or were remarkably unobservant. In League City
where I lived, when the wind was out of the north the smell of
petrochemicals was very noticable, and nearly everyone commented about
the smelly air.

I, too, lived in League City (in fact, I was a volunteer paramedic there for
over a decade), and nobody commented on it in my presence.

Whenever I go to Houston now, the smell when you leave the terminal at
IAH is noticable, even though that's some distance away from the
main refinery areas. I never used to notice it that far out when I
actually lived there, probably because that's just how the air was and I
didn't really notice it any more.

I still don't notice it, there or down in League City. I do notice it just a
little bit along Texas 225 out toward the Battleship Texas, but how many
refineries are out that way?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 11:46:34 GMT, Jay Maynard wrote:

On 2008-04-10, Dylan Smith wrote:
It's for the adults, too. I've lived in an oil town, and even with the
environmental regulations we have today, the sky still turns green over
La Porte, and after flying a clean aircraft for a half hour, you land
and there's a film of gunk adhering to the leading edges of everything.
This is Texas City, Baytown, La Porte and most of the east side of
Houston today, not a story from antiquity. If you're flying the ILS into
Galveston, you can do without a marker beacon in your panel - the air
gets a unique stench as you approach the outer marker (and for most of
the rest of the approach). Texas City residents just have to live with
that stench.

I lived in Houston well past my 40th birthday. I learned to fly out of
Ellington Field, and flew back and forth to Galveston to practice. I didn't
notice any of this.

You must have lived in the alternate universe Houston.

I was born and raised there. I vividly remember a family reunion
picnic being driven from Milby Park by the stench of a nearby chemical
plant.

Houston, despite being located on a flat plain near the ocean, is
regularly among the smoggiest cities in the U. S. L. A. at least has
the excuse of being in a basin that traps the gunk.

http://www.ewg.org/reports/fuzzyair


I'd be happy to have a refinery in Fairmont. It won't happen, though, as the
regulatory climate in Minnesota is extremely anti-oil.

Refiners know they can beat environmental rules by upgrading existing
plants that are "grandfathered." They don't need to build new ones.

romeomike schrieb:
A bigger reason that new oil refineries aren't being built, as well as
nuclear waste facilities, is that no one wants one near his playground.

So maybe Jay should jump in and start a petition (he is good in such
things) for an oil raffinery close to his hotel and to the airport and a
nuclear power plant close to his home.

#m

Martin Hotze wrote:
romeomike schrieb:
A bigger reason that new oil refineries aren't being built, as well as
nuclear waste facilities, is that no one wants one near his playground.

So maybe Jay should jump in and start a petition (he is good in such
things) for an oil raffinery close to his hotel and to the airport and a
nuclear power plant close to his home.

#m

No, he'd want some environmentalists to come use all those regulations
he detests to save HIS environment.