ZZZ Name Change for Sun-N-Fun?

On Apr 22, 5:59*am, ChuckSlusarczyk
wrote:
In article , Ron Wanttaja says....



On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:10:07 -0700, John Ousterhout
wrote:

Better define "Race," Filbert...two planes chasing each other, like the fake
Reno races at Oshkosh? *Or an actual competition where the winners aren't
pre-programmed?

According to Wikipedia, the race course is at 1,500 feet, following a
computer-generated course. *Funny thing is, five minutes worth of clicking on
the RRL site didn't lead to a description that even gave THAT much information.
Until you find out what RRL's definition of a "race" is, I wouldn't place any
bets.

Hmmm perception and reality at work here? The zoom touch is alive and well
LOL!!!



Did find this picture on the RRL site, which is a real howler:

http://www.rocketracingleague.com/ga...s/images/runwa...

Note how the runway is just two wingspans wide, and the grandstands are RIGHT at
the runway edge. *We're finally seeing the results of Campbell's input. :-)

That certainly isn't FAA's idea of a "crowd line" try having an airshow with the
crowd line so close to the action...NOT!! more perception and reality problems.



Each race (again, according to Wikipedia) is supposed to last 90 minutes, with
the planes carrying four minutes of fuel. *World record for a rocket pit stop is
something like three hours. *Even if they get that down to 15 minutes (including
the time to tow the plane to the fuel station and back to the runway), that's
STILL a lot of gliding time.

I can hear the race announcer now ." Ladies and gentleman the race is on and see
that imaginary race course in the sky ? See how many of you can tell who's
winning the race OOOPPPS time for a pit stop while the action switches to the
pits for refueling.
While they're purging the tanks and doing a pre cool now's the time to go for a
dinner and visit of our sales mall.There you can enjoy a sit down meal and
dancing while the kids buy overpriced rocket models and play *in the game room.

After dinner and dancing return to your seats for the exciting conclusion of the
ROCKET *RACING's First heat.Thrills ,chills and excitement await us as the
Racers try to start their engines and OOOPPS we had a flame out ...Time to visit
out inhouse theater and watch an exciting movie staring the hero of stage screen
and Tv as he stars in the exciting movie the "Amazing Adventures of Capt Zoom
hero of the Universe".

While the refueling continues the Burbank RC Flyers will do a demonstration of
pylon racing with REAL model pylon racers.Now that's racing *folks...While we're
waiting for the Pylon Racers to show up .Take a visit to our .....

I can hardly wait....

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

That is just about my opinion of this pipe dream from the day I first
heard about it. It is running on what? 2 years? 3 years? now and no
progress that I have heard about, no planes flying that have been
reported in the news...

Bottom line? Don't hold your breath folks.

Harry K

Ron Wanttaja wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:10:07 -0700, John Ousterhout
wrote:

But I'll issue a public apology to Jim Campbell if he ever acts as PIC
in a Rocket Race.


Better define "Race," Filbert...two planes chasing each other, like the fake
Reno races at Oshkosh? Or an actual competition where the winners aren't
pre-programmed?

According to Wikipedia, the race course is at 1,500 feet, following a
computer-generated course. Funny thing is, five minutes worth of clicking on
the RRL site didn't lead to a description that even gave THAT much information.
Until you find out what RRL's definition of a "race" is, I wouldn't place any
bets.


I guess I just assumed that everyone would agree with me that an
exhibition is not a race. But for those in doubt, I meant a real Rocket
Racing League event with multiple rockets competing.

- Filbert

In article , John Ousterhout
says...

Ron Wanttaja wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:10:07 -0700, John Ousterhout
wrote:

But I'll issue a public apology to Jim Campbell if he ever acts as PIC
in a Rocket Race.


Better define "Race," Filbert...two planes chasing each other, like the fake
Reno races at Oshkosh? Or an actual competition where the winners aren't
pre-programmed?

According to Wikipedia, the race course is at 1,500 feet, following a
computer-generated course. Funny thing is, five minutes worth of clicking on
the RRL site didn't lead to a description that even gave THAT much information.
Until you find out what RRL's definition of a "race" is, I wouldn't place any
bets.


I guess I just assumed that everyone would agree with me that an
exhibition is not a race. But for those in doubt, I meant a real Rocket
Racing League event with multiple rockets competing.


Your right a exhibition is not a race . I think a better race would be to take
bets and see if the new fat zoomy can fit in the cockpit .Last I saw him he was
quite pudgy :-)

Chuck (20 # less )S RAH-14/1 ret

Ron Wanttaja wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:10:07 -0700, John Ousterhout
wrote:

ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
I'd bet a nickle the closest he gets to flying one of those racers will be a
photo op with him in the cockpit .That way he can get rid of the pic of him in
the engineless F-104 and replace it with something newer :-)
I believe that the chance of Captain Zoom ever racing a rocket is less
than the chance of me ever flying that F-104.

But I'll issue a public apology to Jim Campbell if he ever acts as PIC
in a Rocket Race.

Better define "Race," Filbert...two planes chasing each other, like the fake
Reno races at Oshkosh? Or an actual competition where the winners aren't
pre-programmed?

According to Wikipedia, the race course is at 1,500 feet, following a
computer-generated course. Funny thing is, five minutes worth of clicking on
the RRL site didn't lead to a description that even gave THAT much information.
Until you find out what RRL's definition of a "race" is, I wouldn't place any
bets.

Did find this picture on the RRL site, which is a real howler:

http://www.rocketracingleague.com/ga.../runwaybig.jpg

Note how the runway is just two wingspans wide, and the grandstands are RIGHT at
the runway edge. We're finally seeing the results of Campbell's input. :-)

Each race (again, according to Wikipedia) is supposed to last 90 minutes, with
the planes carrying four minutes of fuel. World record for a rocket pit stop is
something like three hours. Even if they get that down to 15 minutes (including
the time to tow the plane to the fuel station and back to the runway), that's
STILL a lot of gliding time.

Ron Wanttaja


It seems to me using solid fuel rocket engines would make more sense
for racing. Each airplane would have two engines, one high impulse for
take off and the other a long duration burn for the race. It seems to me
rapid engine changes would be possible.

I have always thought a replica Me163 with a solid fuel engine would
be a rather nice air show draw.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:31:02 -0500, Dan wrote:

It seems to me using solid fuel rocket engines would make more sense
for racing. Each airplane would have two engines, one high impulse for
take off and the other a long duration burn for the race. It seems to me
rapid engine changes would be possible.

It's an interesting idea, but has some technical drawbacks.

A liquid rocket motor, like they're using now, gets fuel just like a recip:
Fuel and oxidizer are stored in tanks and fed to the engine via pipes. It means
that you can install the motor itself in the best location and put the fuel
tanks on the CG so that the aircraft's balance doesn't change during.

However, a solid rocket is a single, self-contained unit. If you put (for
example) a Star 17A solid rocket where the Velocity's engine normally goes,
there'll be ~280 pounds in the engine compartment when the motor lights off, but
only ~30 pounds left when the motor burns out 20 seconds later. This is the
equivalent of having a recip engine completely depart the airframe in flight.

It's not insurmoutable...you could put a small water tank for ballast way up
front and drain it at the required rate. If you could get five times the moment
arm (which is probably pushing it) you'd only need a six gallon tank. But with
both a boost and a sustainer engine, you'd have to have a larger tank with
variable drain rates. And if the water drain system fails, the plane will
shortly become uncontrollable...no way to shut down a solid rocket short of
blowing it up.

If your solid rocket motor were slim and long, you could install it so that half
the casing was forward of the CG. But that does push it into the cabin.

Due to the heat, I doubt a composite Velocity airframe could stand the motor
near the actual CG. The only remaining solution would put twin engines on the
wings. You'd have to beef up the wing structure to handle it. You'll also need
to ensure the aircraft has enough rudder authority to handle it when one motor
burns out a little earlier than the other.

It would probably be a lot easier to mount a second liquid-fueled sustainer
motor in the current vehicles. In fact, a better solution would be to install
multiple small motors instead of the single large one they're doing now. This
would give the pilots a "throttle" that would be a significant tactical factor
in the event of an actual race.

I have always thought a replica Me163 with a solid fuel engine would
be a rather nice air show draw.

The guys up in Everett manufacturing the Me-262s are building an ME-163. No plan
to fly it, though. Pity....

Ron Wanttaja

Ron Wanttaja wrote:
snip
Did find this picture on the RRL site, which is a real howler:

http://www.rocketracingleague.com/ga.../runwaybig.jpg

Note how the runway is just two wingspans wide, and the grandstands are RIGHT at
the runway edge. We're finally seeing the results of Campbell's input. :-)


It could be worse, they could have the refueling pits next to the
grandstand. So you lose a few spectators every so often when the pit
goes boom, but that would only add to the excitement.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Dan wrote:

It could be worse, they could have the refueling pits next to the
grandstand. So you lose a few spectators every so often when the pit
goes boom, but that would only add to the excitement.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

No, No! Not next to the spectators...

Next to the press!

- O Negative

John Ousterhout wrote:
ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:

I'd bet a nickle the closest he gets to flying one of those racers
will be a
photo op with him in the cockpit .That way he can get rid of the pic
of him in
the engineless F-104 and replace it with something newer :-)

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

"I'll believe it when I see it "


I believe that the chance of Captain Zoom ever racing a rocket is less
than the chance of me ever flying that F-104.

But I'll issue a public apology to Jim Campbell if he ever acts as PIC
in a Rocket Race.

- Filbert


Make sure you obtain verifiable witnesses. I'm sure ole zoom already
has a press release ready for his "I test fly a rocket racer" report.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

In article , Dan says...

John Ousterhout wrote:
ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:

I'd bet a nickle the closest he gets to flying one of those racers
will be a
photo op with him in the cockpit .That way he can get rid of the pic
of him in
the engineless F-104 and replace it with something newer :-)

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

"I'll believe it when I see it "


I believe that the chance of Captain Zoom ever racing a rocket is less
than the chance of me ever flying that F-104.

But I'll issue a public apology to Jim Campbell if he ever acts as PIC
in a Rocket Race.

- Filbert


Make sure you obtain verifiable witnesses. I'm sure ole zoom already
has a press release ready for his "I test fly a rocket racer" report.


I bet he'll be the first to loop roll and spin one LOL!! I'm sure jaun will
verify it for zoomy he believes everything zoomy says.

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:



I bet he'll be the first to loop roll and spin one LOL!! I'm sure jaun will
verify it for zoomy he believes everything zoomy says.

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret


It will be hard for jaun to verify since he is usually head down on
Zoom's cock....I mean in zoom's cockpit.