Looking at an old Ercoupe today...

A friend recently painted his formerly polished aluminum plane. It was
beautiful as polished aluminum, but REALLY labor intensive, to the point
where he blamed his rotator cuff on that continuous maintenance! Pretty
as the polished aluminum is, it would drive me crazy to have to worry
about every little fingerprint and follow people around with a cloth
whenever anyone is near the plane. Besides, it would be fun to be able
to CHOOSE a paint scheme. Any ideas?

Plenty. But first we have to buy it!

The seller is out of town for the weekend, so we've got a few days to hammer
out the paperwork in the flying club we're setting up...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay ...

One of the problems is that you have the same mindset that 95% of Americans
have. "We have to drive them over there."

In the first place, if you tell me that Greyhound (or ilk) doesn't go
between Iowa City and Muscatine, I'd find it hard to believe. Or other
public transportation.

In the second place, if you don't have to make the trip and wait around for
the lesson to be over, Becca can get multiple flights in a single day. When
I was in the glider game, I saw young kids (who seem to be much more
adaptive and quicker on the pickup than old geezers) solo in gliders at the
end of their second day.

Third and last, I'm sure that you are in the Iowa Hotel Club (or whatever
you call it). If members have a swapsie policy (you stay at my place and I
stay at your place swap) then Becca could do ten flights in two days with an
overnighter in between relatively easily.

Just some random thoughts, mindya.

Jim

--
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it."
--Aristotle


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:hhBXj.167793$yE1.58683@attbi_s21...



That's been our dilemma. We wanted Joe (and now Becca) to do gliders at
age 14, in (relatively) nearby Muscatine, IA, which has a small glider
operation -- but getting there is a 45 minute drive, minimum. We simply
don't have 90 minutes in our day to waste sitting in a car.

"RST Engineering" wrote:
One of the problems is that you have the same mindset
that 95% of Americans have. "We have to drive them
over there."

But since most Americans aren't just sitting around doing nothing 98% of
the time, *is* a real consideration. Sometimes 14-year-olds have
wealthy, retired grandparents that are able and willing to spend
half-a-day or more to the scenario Jay described, but many do not have
that luxury.

In the first place, if you tell me that Greyhound (or ilk) doesn't go
between Iowa City and Muscatine, I'd find it hard to believe. Or other
public transportation.

I don't know where you are, but I've yet to see a sailport in an area of
town that is on any Greyhound route. There are 3 sailports each within
1-2 hours drive (in a car) from me, but the nearest bus stop to any of
them would still leave me 5-8 miles away from the facility. Most
gliderports aren't right in the middle of town on the bus route.

In the second place, if you don't have to make the trip and wait around for
the lesson to be over, Becca can get multiple flights in a single day. When
I was in the glider game, I saw young kids (who seem to be much more
adaptive and quicker on the pickup than old geezers) solo in gliders at the
end of their second day.

Third and last, I'm sure that you are in the Iowa Hotel Club (or whatever
you call it). If members have a swapsie policy (you stay at my place and I
stay at your place swap) then Becca could do ten flights in two days with an
overnighter in between relatively easily.

And then what? Even if Becca could get her Private Pilot Glider in those
two days (doubtful, and that's not an insult to Becca, Jay), if the
place is that far away and Becca doesn't drive yet and Jay doesn't have
time to take her there and back, how does she fly often enough to
maintain her skills?

I'm just saying that it boils down to the bottom line of almost
everything -- is it convenient? affordable? time-permitting?

Most of us will make sacrifices in any or all of those areas to do
something we're passionate about, but it's also not uncommon for any one
of those considerations to be significant enough to make it un-do-able.

I don't know where you are, but I've yet to see a sailport in an area of
town that is on any Greyhound route. There are 3 sailports each within
1-2 hours drive (in a car) from me, but the nearest bus stop to any of
them would still leave me 5-8 miles away from the facility. Most
gliderports aren't right in the middle of town on the bus route.

And most gliderport operators, sensing money in the air for glider rental,
would probably be thrilled to give Becca a ride from the bus stop to the
airport.



And then what? Even if Becca could get her Private Pilot Glider in those
two days (doubtful, and that's not an insult to Becca, Jay), if the
place is that far away and Becca doesn't drive yet and Jay doesn't have
time to take her there and back, how does she fly often enough to
maintain her skills?

Nobody said anything about Becca getting her gliderguider private in two
days. As a matter of fact, impossible. Forty hours is forty hours and even
with minimal pottybreak downtime, forty hours in forty-eight hours is nigh
impossible. However, string eight or ten of the twofers together over
summer break you'll be able to come damned close.



I'm just saying that it boils down to the bottom line of almost
everything -- is it convenient? affordable? time-permitting?

It can be made so.

Jim

In the first place, if you tell me that Greyhound (or ilk) doesn't go
between Iowa City and Muscatine, I'd find it hard to believe. Or other
public transportation.

Nope. No public transportation (that I know of) between here and there.
(And, quite frankly, I wouldn't let Becca ride a Greyhound bus alone at age
14 anyway...)

Third and last, I'm sure that you are in the Iowa Hotel Club (or whatever
you call it). If members have a swapsie policy (you stay at my place and
I stay at your place swap) then Becca could do ten flights in two days
with an overnighter in between relatively easily.

Sadly, stupidly, there is no such thing. I've talked to our Chamber of
Commerce about setting something up, but the friggin' gummint has everyone
running scared about the tax ramifications of barter.

Just some random thoughts, mindya.

Appreciate it, too. I'm afraid she'll just have to wait and do her Private
when she's a wizened old 16-year-old, just like her brother...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
Nope. No public transportation (that I know of) between here and there.
(And, quite frankly, I wouldn't let Becca ride a Greyhound bus alone at age
14 anyway...)

As I mom, that was my first thought as well...not to mention having
"someone" from the sailport picking up and dropping off a 14-year-old
girl -- you arrange for the owner of the place to do that, but he's busy
so he sends someone else, etc. And on the other side of it, in today's
times, would YOU go to the bus stop to pick up a 14-year-old girl?
Creepy, and off topic, but part of the proposed scenario, nonetheless.

Appreciate it, too. I'm afraid she'll just have to wait and do her
Private when she's a wizened old 16-year-old, just like her brother...

And if SHE really wants it, it's not as if 16 is an old lady! And she
could drive herself.

On May 17, 7:55*pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
In the first place, if you tell me that Greyhound (or ilk) doesn't go
between Iowa City and Muscatine, I'd find it hard to believe. *Or other
public transportation.

Nope. No public transportation (that I know of) between here and there.
(And, quite frankly, I wouldn't let Becca ride a Greyhound bus alone at age
14 anyway...)


To bad, But if you/she really wanted to do it you could cut the
commute time down a bunch by taking Atlas or the Ercoupe. As noted she
could probably solo in a few days. But then of couse you probably
don't need any excuses to go flying.

Brian

I certainly agree that soaring is not for everyone.

It certainly has the disadvantage that you can't just drive out the
airport and do a four hour flight any day of the week. On the other
had 90% of my flights are in excess of 3 hours. However due to my work
schedule I only fly a few days a year from my local airport. So I
often take a week or 2 weeks off to go to some Ideal soaring sites
for soaring contests or Safaris. On these trips I can easily do 25
hours per week of flying.

Accessablity is also another issue in that you often have to drive
quite a ways to get to soaring site. I don't live anywhere near a
glider port, I would have to drive over 300 miles to rent a glider.
But we have arranged for years with our local FBO's to get glider
tows. Soaring isn't for people that can not make time for it. A
soaring flight is often an all day event. As with most things though
it is the simple trade off of time vs Money. For getting a glider
rating.. If you don't have time you pay your money and go to a
commerical operation to get you rating in a few days. If you don't
have money you take your time and commute to a club operation where
you can volunteer you time and take a few months to get you rating.
For Soaring... If you don't have money you either rent or buy a
$7,000 glider and commute to a gliderport to glider tows. If you
don't have time you buy a $80,000 motor glider and self launch from
your local airport.

Of course there all kinds of compromises and and variations of in
between costs.

Jay could easily fly sailplanes if he wanted to. He already has an
adequate tow plane and a tow pilot available. There would be some
initial costs or course. But he has decided this not what he really
wants to do at this time, and that is just fine.

I can also agree that getting a private license in a glider can be an
expensive. In fact I often recommend prospective glider pilots to get
either time in power or a Private power license so they can transition
to gliders rather than do it from scratch. I have often figured that a
person could get a glider and power rating for about the same cost as
getting just a glider rating. There are exceptions of course. I train
many more power pilots than I do glider pilots.

My pet peeve is when both glider and power pilots say the flying
gliders is to expensive. These are the same power pilots that then go
get into a $60,000 airplane. The argument I often see from glider
pilots is that if we can afford a glider then we should be able to
afford a Transponder or 406 ELT or ADS B etc. Many of these cost more
than my Annual Soaring Budget and often more the 10% of the value of
my glider.
As I previously stated Soaring can be expensive but it doesn't have to
be. It does usually require more time commitment than power aircraft.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

Brian wrote:
[snip all good stuff]
My pet peeve is when both glider and power pilots say the flying
gliders is to expensive.

As I previously stated Soaring can be expensive but it doesn't have to
be. It does usually require more time commitment than power aircraft.

I agree with everything you said.
One comment: My pet peeve is when people say glider flying is
inexpensive without adding any of the clarification that has been
discussed in this thread. As outlined, you can make it inexpensive *IF*
you have the time *and* some of the options discussed available to you;
if not, staying current *can be* an significant expense. None of that
negates its value, of course, but again, depends how much time and $ a
person can/is willing to spend for it.

On 2008-05-15, Shirl wrote:
You didn't say how much you paid for the 38:1 glass ship!

And to have fun in gliders it doesn't have to be a 38:1 glass ship. I
imagine Iowa has many great thermic days, where going cross country in
an old wood and fabric Ka-8 (which will cost around 4 grand for one in
mint condition, much less for an average one) is not all that difficult
and a lot of fun.

I just did my silver duration in a 38:1 glass ship though, in Scotland
of all places, in thermal lift - further north than the entire
continental US, and much of populated Canada. (And the 38:1 glass ships
don't have to cost the earth - I did my silver duration, which is 5
hours soaring flight, in an ASW-19 that's 30 years old).

Some pictures:
http://www.alioth.net/pics/Aboyne-Ma...s/Image25.html
http://www.alioth.net/pics/Aboyne-Ma...s/Image31.html

The glider certainly doesn't look 30 years old!

I wouldn't describe it as "very inexpensive", either! It can go either
way. Sometimes, "inexpensive" is hardly the case, with paying for the
tow and the minimum hourly rental for what ends up being a 20-minute
flight (approximate duration of a tow to 3000 feet with no lift).

But inexpensive compared to power planes. My 5 hour flight was much
cheaper (in a club ship, not one I owned) than flying 5 hours in a
relatively modest powered aircraft. If you live somewhere with lots of
soarable days, it's a very worthy consideration if you want an aircraft
if your destination is "up", or your destination is a cross country
flight just for the sake of making one. If you already know how to fly
then it doesn't take long to get a glider private. And it *really*
teaches you about weather and airmass - many 25 hour glider pilots have
better appreciation of weather and airmass than 2500 hour power
pilots...and if you're also a power pilot, this translates to better
skill as a power pilot.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
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