What would you buy with a 50k budget?

"KE" == Kirk Ellis writes:

KE As far as VFR flying was concerned, things looked hopeful but
KE flying only 15 or so hours a year is not going to satisfy my
KE quest to become a proficient aviator. I thought that perhaps
KE just tooling around the neighborhood in a little 152 or so
KE would satisfy the urge, but in the pathetic 150 hours I have
KE amassed over the last ten years I am already beyond
KE that. Confining myself to local hops around the pattern does
KE not hold much appeal any longer if I cannot mix it up with
KE some good XC's every so often. The thought of taking those
KE relatively longer XC flights to places further than 100 miles
KE from the home base are part of what motivated me to obtain
KE that license. But, sadly, the longest XC I have ever flown in
KE that time is the one required for the PPL.

You describe a situation similar to mine a few years ago. I lived 3
miles from a very good club with taildraggers, Cessnas, and even a
Bonanza, but then the club moved one way, I moved another, and my
flying dropped to no more than 20 hours/year. Like you, I wanted to
fly long, multi-day cross-country flights. Finally I realized I
needed to either buy my own airplane or quit.

I ended up buying an Aircoupe, performance not greatly different than
the ubiquitous C-150. The first year I put on well over 100 hours and
I've flown it from N. California to Arizona, Seattle, Oshkosh, SoCal,
and of course all over N. California.

I cite my experience to point out that one does not need a $100K
airplane to fly cross country. I joke at the airport that I can get
to the same place as the Mooney/Bonanza/C206 guys, I just have to
start yesterday. So what? Neither does one need the IFR rating to
fly X-C, just judgement and vacation time. Read Rinker Buck's "Flight
of Passage" to see how it's done.

Consider a lesser airplane than your dream airplane. It will hold
value and you can sell it in a few years and get your capital cost
back. That's what I plan to do. The Coupe whetted my appetite for
faster cross countries so I started building an RV-9A. I'll sell the
Coupe in a year or two to pay for the engine.
--
Truth is for the minority.
~ Baltasar Gracián

Kirk,

One way to lay out your decision tree is to consider which engine you'd
want first. I'd suggest the Lycoming O-235, O-320, O-360 or the
Continental O-200. I think the Continental is the least desirable of
these four, but talk to some local mechanics.

You don't say how lithe you are, but I'm a similar age and don't enjoy
popping in and out of a Cherokee. Having two doors is very nice,
especially for short flights with a co-pilot.

For someone who enjoys flying and is approaching retirement, I say 'why
fly fast?' I generally fly a C-172, an Arrow and a Bonanza and flying
the 172 is just as fun as flying the others, unless I'm in weather or at
a very busy airport.

Have you considered a third partner? Fuel is expensive, but fixed costs
are high, too, including avionics. A third partner would knock down
these costs a bit. I don't think a fourth is worth the trouble. You
could also add the Powerflow exhaust to a C-172 and fly it enough with
three to make it pay. I would think the added climb performance would
be nice in Florida.

For the production planes, I would look at a Musketeer class, a Warrior,
a Cherokee 180, a Cheetah and a C-172. I think the economy of a C-152
is negated by its small size, unless your proportions are quite modest.

The Musketeers are said to be quite comfortable, but they are slow and
some say landing can be tricky at first. The Cherokee 180 is perhaps
the most performance for the money, but I don't like crawling in and
out. It's possibly the only plane with the O-360 that you might find
for under $50k, though.

Some say the Cheetah is hard to steer with its castoring nosewheel, but
I thought it was completely a non-issue when I flew a Tiger.

I recently read through the NTSB accident reports on the Tiger and was
surprised to find a number of carb ice crashes. I don't know if the
Cheetah is the same. I would think using a carb temp gauge would
prevent most accidents.

If money is a major consideration, I would never consider a retractable,
unless the plane is flown cross-country for hundreds of hours per year.

Another option is just to make friends with someone who already owns a
plane and fly with him. Don't know if that would scratch your itch or not.

Anyway, these are my thoughts.

Good luck.

-John

Kirk Ellis wrote:

A fellow pilot/friend and I have been knocking around the idea of
doing a 2-way partnership on an aircraft next summer. I have had my
ticket since 1998 although I have only 150 some odd hours total. My
friend has about half that. Relatively speaking we still consider
ourselves newbie "students" but have this overwhelming desire to
become the best pilots possible and that requires lots of practice.

To that end we think that the best way is to have an aircraft that is
ready on a moments notice for us. We live in northern Florida and what
is particularly difficult for us as VFR only pilots is caused by the
whims of the weather. If we rent, we don't have the flexibility to
wake up one morning, see that it's not raining or threatening to and
be able to make the decision then and there to go flying. That's a
benefit we can't get from the flight school we normally rent from
which in in our recent experience has been in the Archer III.

So we are going to be looking for a plane that will fit a 50k budget.
We know we can find a decent 150 or 152 for less than that, and have
talked about a two seater being adequate for us to gain experience and
build time. But we also have dreams of doing some cross country flying
like from JAX to the Keys or we have even dicussed how awesome it
would be to be able to fly to central Texas where we both have
relatives to visit. For that, I am thinking a 4-seater would be best,
and besides there might be some times when we want to go get that $100
burger with another friend or 2. I think we'd like to go for something
not any older than say 30 or 32 years..circa 1976 - 1978 or newer.

So we have begun our journey which will hopefully culminate next
summer with us being able to say we are aircraft owners.

But to the question as indicated in the subject line. What would you
buy if all you had was 50k and what criteria would you apply to base
that decision? I know there will be many opinions and that's fine. It
will be interesting to see what we might be able to afford with that
budget.

Thanks



Kirk Ellis
PPL-ASEL

I have a hunch that the market is bad enough that you will be able to
get a much better plane for $50K than many are suggesting.

I think they would be really hard to sell right about now.

So many of the planes that seem to be too expensive for you will
still be sale when you are flying around in yours! Their owners
haven't
grasped what is going on. I'll bet you could buy one for about 60-70%
of
what you are expecting if you were patient; and it wouldn't be a heap.

So I'd pick the airplane that would meet your needs that you could
get a really good deal on. It wouldn't matter a lot what brand it
was.

I have seen project airplanes suggested. Only buy one of those
if you want a project.

And, BTW, I wouldn't buy a Bonanza older than H-35. Too many
speciality problems to know about. They can be a great deal if you
are really expert; otherwise, you could drown in AMUs spent.

Bill Hale



On May 17, 5:24*am, Kirk Ellis wrote:
A fellow pilot/friend and I have been knocking around the idea of
doing a 2-way partnership on an aircraft next summer. I have had my
ticket since 1998 although I have only 150 some odd hours total. My
friend has about half that. Relatively speaking we still consider
ourselves newbie "students" but have this overwhelming desire to
become the best pilots possible and that requires lots of practice.

For example, I just heard of a guy buying this plane:

Cherokee Archer II 3000TT 0 SMOH, nice condition.

Garmin stack including 430. $60K. Not quite in your price range.

Hang in there. You can get a better plane than is being proposed.

BH


On May 20, 12:43*pm, "
wrote:
I have a hunch that the market is bad enough that you will be able to
get a much better plane for $50K than many are suggesting.

I think they would be really hard to sell right about now.

So many of the planes that seem to be too expensive for you will
still be sale when you are flying around in yours! Their owners
haven't
grasped what is going on. *I'll bet you could buy one for about 60-70%
of
what you are expecting if you were patient; and it wouldn't be a heap.

So I'd pick the airplane that would meet your needs that you could
get a really good deal on. *It wouldn't matter a lot what brand it
was.

I have seen project airplanes suggested. *Only buy one of those
if you want a project.

And, BTW, I wouldn't buy a Bonanza older than H-35. *Too many
speciality problems to know about. *They can be a great deal if you
are really expert; otherwise, you could drown in AMUs spent.

Bill Hale

On May 17, 5:24*am, Kirk Ellis wrote:



A fellow pilot/friend and I have been knocking around the idea of
doing a 2-way partnership on an aircraft next summer. I have had my
ticket since 1998 although I have only 150 some odd hours total. My
friend has about half that. Relatively speaking we still consider
ourselves newbie "students" but have this overwhelming desire to
become the best pilots possible and that requires lots of practice.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Tue, 20 May 2008 11:43:55 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I have a hunch that the market is bad enough that you will be able to
get a much better plane for $50K than many are suggesting.

I think they would be really hard to sell right about now.

Your partner might just be that plane seller too. Ask, many could still
aford 1/2 0r 1/3rd
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