Mxsmanic , IFR sensations, and some other stuff

On May 18, 7:23 pm, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
....
Also, I read somewhere that JFK Junior's plane crashed probably
because he did not trust his intstruments. What's the likelihood of
that?
-Le Chaud Lapin-

Approaching an airport with limited VFR usually
requires a radio call for barometric altitude reset,
to the airport intended for landing, especially if
flying into a Low pressure, which causes barometer
reading of the altitude to give a false higher altitude.

His altimeter may have been reading 200' when he
was at sea level...that's a big oops.
Ken

JFK was in a spiral from about 5000 feet when he crashed. A 200 foot
error in his altimeter was the least of his problems.

He had more training for in IR than most do when they pass the test.
This was a case of a pilot who, it would seem, was crossing the sound
with an auto pilot engaged. Radar showed a smooth flight until that
point when most would have started down to pattern altitude from 5000
feet. The airplane went from pretty straight and pretty level to
impact in less than 30 seconds.

The NTSB report is vivid and frightening.



On May 19, 10:52 am, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
On May 18, 7:23 pm, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
...

Also, I read somewhere that JFK Junior's plane crashed probably
because he did not trust his intstruments. What's the likelihood of
that?
-Le Chaud Lapin-

Approaching an airport with limited VFR usually
requires a radio call for barometric altitude reset,
to the airport intended for landing, especially if
flying into a Low pressure, which causes barometer
reading of the altitude to give a false higher altitude.

His altimeter may have been reading 200' when he
was at sea level...that's a big oops.
Ken

On May 19, 7:58 am, Tina wrote:
JFK was in a spiral from about 5000 feet when he crashed. A 200 foot
error in his altimeter was the least of his problems.

He had more training for in IR than most do when they pass the test.
This was a case of a pilot who, it would seem, was crossing the sound
with an auto pilot engaged. Radar showed a smooth flight until that
point when most would have started down to pattern altitude from 5000
feet. The airplane went from pretty straight and pretty level to
impact in less than 30 seconds.

The NTSB report is vivid and frightening.

Thank you Tina, I just reread this,
http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief2.asp?...MA178& akey=1
Somewhat applicable to this thread!
Ken

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in
:

On May 19, 7:58 am, Tina wrote:
JFK was in a spiral from about 5000 feet when he crashed. A 200 foot
error in his altimeter was the least of his problems.

He had more training for in IR than most do when they pass the test.
This was a case of a pilot who, it would seem, was crossing the sound
with an auto pilot engaged. Radar showed a smooth flight until that
point when most would have started down to pattern altitude from 5000
feet. The airplane went from pretty straight and pretty level to
impact in less than 30 seconds.

The NTSB report is vivid and frightening.

Thank you Tina, I just reread this,



Not that it would mean anything to you.


Bertie

On Mon, 19 May 2008 09:26:58 -0700 (PDT), Ken S. Tucker wrote:

On May 19, 7:58 am, Tina wrote:
JFK was in a spiral from about 5000 feet when he crashed. A 200 foot
error in his altimeter was the least of his problems.

He had more training for in IR than most do when they pass the test.
This was a case of a pilot who, it would seem, was crossing the sound
with an auto pilot engaged. Radar showed a smooth flight until that
point when most would have started down to pattern altitude from 5000
feet. The airplane went from pretty straight and pretty level to
impact in less than 30 seconds.

The NTSB report is vivid and frightening.

Thank you Tina, I just reread this,
http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief2.asp?...MA178& akey=1
Somewhat applicable to this thread!
Ken

He was doomed. injured ankle (rudder control issues), inability to
multi-task, turned down a co-ride with his CFI, VFR FNR, the list goes
on.

Tragic but avoidable, my 2 cents.

Chris Anderson's Book "The Day John Died" will offer more insights.

JFK Jr was a known risk taker, and was called the Master of Disaster
by his friends. His ankle may still have been in a cast on this
trip, the result of an injury from an ultra light accident not long
before. It's been said very few of his family and friends were willing
to fly with him. He lacked the superior judgment pilots should have to
avoid circumstances where they may be called upon to display superior
skills.

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news:c3925500-014d-
:

On May 18, 7:23 pm, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
...
Also, I read somewhere that JFK Junior's plane crashed probably
because he did not trust his intstruments. What's the likelihood of
that?
-Le Chaud Lapin-

Approaching an airport with limited VFR usually
requires a radio call for barometric altitude reset,
to the airport intended for landing, especially if
flying into a Low pressure, which causes barometer
reading of the altitude to give a false higher altitude.



Good grief


His altimeter may have been reading 200' when he
was at sea level...that's a big oops.


No, a big oops is letting you anywhere near any kind of machine.


Bertie

Good words Dudley!

And I agree...

I was impressed that an intelligent and useful net discussion started
by Anthony continued DESPITE the sniping by the usual annoyances.

Many here feel as you do Dudley.

lets all move on with this..

If an insult is required, use the mail and have at it..

Please.....

Spare the rest of us who value the knowledge offered here..

Dave






On Sun, 18 May 2008 17:58:22 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Hi folks;
Please bear with me on this post. I've just spent the entire day
thinking about some things and have a few what I hope will be accepted
as friendly thoughts to share.

Keep in mind if you're reading this that what I'm going to say isn't
meant to be critical of anyone in any way and that I totally respect the
right of everyone on this forum to make up their own mind on these issues.

What I'd like to share with you are simply my own thoughts on some
things. All of what I'm saying here is simply how I personally view the
issues involved.
So bear with me as I try and get this stuff down without ****ing off
half the world in the process.

First of all, I've been reading a thread here where pilots are dealing
with Mxsmanic on the issue of physical sensation vs instruments in an
IFR environment, specifically when certain instrument failures are
either involved or suspected.
Without getting into a whole magilla concerning right and wrong, simply
let me say that in my opinion physical sensation should never, and I
repeat it again so that there's NO mistake....NEVER be used to verify or
augment an instrument reading. In my opinion, this is what proper scan
technique is all about. You verify instruments CONSTANTLY using other
instruments, right on down to primary panel if necessary, but in my
opinion, the basic concept of ignoring physical cues and sensations
while on instruments is a sound principle ans should be followed to the
letter.
Now, on to the subject of Mxsmanic.
I have no idea whether Mxsmanic was posting from knowledge or from a
source when he posted on the above issue, but in my opinion he was right
in what he was saying about physical sensation vs IFR procedure, and
yes, I am aware Mxsmanic doesn't fly.
Please know I'm not faulting those who take him on. That's between you
and Mxsmanic. If it's your choice to answer this person the way some of
you have chosen (and I've been just as guilty myself on occasion) then
that is your choice, and I'll make no attempt here to play internet cop
or even to try to change your mind. This is a matter of individual
choice, but I will try and explain to you how I personally will be
attempting to deal with Usenet from now on. If some of you follow my
lead, I'll be grateful, but if you don't, I won't attempt to chastise
you. It's totally an individual decision.

What I'm going to try and do on the forum from now on is to treat every
post I see and have addressed to me as an individual post. If the person
posting to me is respectful and polite, I won't care if it's someone I
like or dislike. I won't care if it's someone who blasted me with a
flame thrower the last time around. If that specific post is respectful,
I'll be answering that post in kind. If it isn't, I'll make a decision
to engage or pass based on my mood at the moment, but hopefully I'll be
able to pass on it. I'm going to try anyway.

Look guys and dolls, this forum is a great place to exchange
information. Most of us have enjoyed it here for eons. I for one don't
want to see this forum die out from becoming nothing more than an
exchange of venom from angry people.
What I'm saying here gang is that I for one have decided that unless
someone posts something disrespectful to me personally, I intend to give
people a decent shot...and yes, that goes for Mxsmanic and any other
simulator pilot who shows up here with a respectful on topic post.

Like I said gang, it's everybody's personal decision to make. I'm simply
stating here what I'm going to do myself. I'll not be ragging on those
who don't think the way I do on these issues.
I am hopeful however, that Mxsmanic and those who have been his
adversaries will simply read what I've said here and say nothing to each
other about it but rather simply and silently take a few steps backward
and consider re-engaging with each other, each giving a little without
saying or admitting they are giving a little.
Who knows; I'll be giving it a shot anyway.

My best to everybody here; friends, old enemies, and yes, Mxsmanic too.

Dudley Henriques formulated the question :
I for one don't want to see this forum die out from becoming nothing more
than an exchange of venom from angry people.
What I'm saying here gang is that I for one have decided that unless someone
posts something disrespectful to me personally, I intend to give people a
decent shot...and yes, that goes for Mxsmanic and any other simulator pilot
who shows up here with a respectful on topic post.

tThat pretty well sums it all. No one can keep adults from acting like
children but why not do that some place else? There is important things
to do here and people's lives are at stake. just my 2cents. :-(

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Hi folks;
Please bear with me on this post. I've just spent the entire day thinking
about some things and have a few what I hope will be accepted as friendly
thoughts to share.


Best post in awhile snipped for brevity


Who knows; I'll be giving it a shot anyway.

My best to everybody here; friends, old enemies, and yes, Mxsmanic too.
--
Dudley Henriques



You get a big AMEN form the choir.

Al G