Maintaining VFR altitudes when following N/S roads/rivers

"Wilhelm" luv2^fly99@cox.^net wrote in
:


"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

The rules vary elsewhere, but I "fly" only in the United States,
since I know
the regulations there better, and they don't change every 300 miles,
and I'm
more familiar with regions in the U.S.

You don't fly anywhere, you're nothing but a simmer flying a desk.

Neither do you, fjukkwit.


Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Dave S writes:

Is that a US only rule or universal? They refer to lots of lower
altitudes as flight levels over there in Europe where mx is..

The rules vary elsewhere, but I "fly" only in the United States,


You don't fly, period, fjukkkktard.



Bertie

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:

Anyway, back to the topic ... it's true that I can fly in the general
direction of a road instead of following it precisely, but I find that it's
easy to get so far away that it's hard to see the road any more. Some
Interstates will turn west for miles, and then turn east again, and so on.
They stay in one direction long enough to get away from you if you are trying
to keep an "average" heading, but if you turn you have to change altitude.
Climbing and descending 2000 feet every few minutes seems like a lot for a
small aircraft.

You fly towards the point where the road meets the horizon, or more
likely, since the horizon is over 80 miles away at 4500 AGL, fades
into the haze, which since you specified VFR, will be at least 3
miles away.

This is trivial to do in a real airplane.

If you can't do it in simulation, the simulation is the problem.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:

Anyway, back to the topic ... it's true that I can fly in the general
direction of a road instead of following it precisely, but I find that
it's
easy to get so far away that it's hard to see the road any more. Some
Interstates will turn west for miles, and then turn east again, and so
on.
They stay in one direction long enough to get away from you if you are
trying
to keep an "average" heading, but if you turn you have to change
altitude.
Climbing and descending 2000 feet every few minutes seems like a lot for
a
small aircraft.

You fly towards the point where the road meets the horizon, or more
likely, since the horizon is over 80 miles away at 4500 AGL, fades
into the haze, which since you specified VFR, will be at least 3
miles away.

This is trivial to do in a real airplane.

If you can't do it in simulation, the simulation is the problem.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Simulators have no problem handling this.

--
Regards, Bob F.

In rec.aviation.student Mxsmanic wrote:
Anyway, back to the topic ... it's true that I can fly in the general
direction of a road instead of following it precisely, but I find that it's
easy to get so far away that it's hard to see the road any more. Some
Interstates will turn west for miles, and then turn east again, and so on.
They stay in one direction long enough to get away from you if you are trying
to keep an "average" heading, but if you turn you have to change altitude.
Climbing and descending 2000 feet every few minutes seems like a lot for a
small aircraft.

Visibility must be really poor if you're doing this. I doubt an interstate
is making regular course changes of more than 90 degrees, so you should be
cutting the corners and seeing a maximum angle of 45 degrees to it. A few
minutes really shouldn't be taking you so far away from it that you can't
see it anymore. Even if you do get to where you can't see it, you're
presumably flying a course that will intersect it again soon, so you can
keep your position based on other landmarks until it heaves into view once
again.

I haven't seen anything in the FARs that provides a way around this for cruise
flight, except, as Bob has pointed out, flying below 3000 AGL. That would
work well enough in Iowa, and then the problem is solved. But over hilly
terrain it gets more difficult, and also other rules come into play for
low-altitude flight, such as the need to respect limitations over congested
areas, wildlife preserves, etc.

You could always try flying a glider instead. Nobody expects you to hold
any particular cruise altitudes there.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

Dave S wrote in :

Bob F. wrote:

If you are below 3000' agl,
then the VFR cruising rule doesn't apply.


Is that a US only rule or universal? They refer to lots of lower
altitudes as flight levels over there in Europe where mx is..


It's common in many parts of the world, but it's not universal. Th eBirts
use a quadtrantal rule, for instance, and in some countries th edivision
isn't N/S but E/W (Spain, for one, and Sweden has some funky rules too.


Bertie

What you are doing is not pilotage.
Fly a straight line based on compass and wind correction computations.
Time between visual points, towns, bridges, etc to compute ground speed.
Correct the heading slightly based on "observations" from pilotage.

just following a meandering river or road is not pilotage.

BT

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Lou writes:

Why would you follow a road?

Pilotage. I try to practice different forms of navigation, and pilotage
is a
useful type of navigation for VFR flights.

just following a meandering river or road is not pilotage.

But fun!

"BT" wrote in message
...
What you are doing is not pilotage.
Fly a straight line based on compass and wind correction computations.
Time between visual points, towns, bridges, etc to compute ground speed.
Correct the heading slightly based on "observations" from pilotage.

just following a meandering river or road is not pilotage.

BT

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Lou writes:

Why would you follow a road?

Pilotage. I try to practice different forms of navigation, and pilotage
is a
useful type of navigation for VFR flights.

What is it that makes you think he not practicing pilotage? What would you
call what he describes what he is doing? (reference please). We'll give you
a little time to read up on Pilotage, DR and Radio navigation and then you
can restate what you said.
--
Regards, Bob F.

In rec.aviation.student BT wrote:
What you are doing is not pilotage.
Fly a straight line based on compass and wind correction computations.
Time between visual points, towns, bridges, etc to compute ground speed.
Correct the heading slightly based on "observations" from pilotage.

just following a meandering river or road is not pilotage.

My understanding is that you have just described dead reckoning with
occasional corrections coming from pilotage. Pure pilotage is simply
knowing where you are by looking out the window. When on the move, you
just keep looking out the window and keep updating your mental picture of
where you are. You may make mental estimates based on this of how long it
will be to get to the next landmark, but if you're doing actual
computation then you're beyond mere pilotage already.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon