Just push the blue button!

"Gezellig" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 16:45:48 GMT, Mike wrote:

"Gezellig" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 16:08:06 GMT, Mike wrote:

At the time of the accident, John-John was training to get his
instrument
ticket and he had flown in IMC with an instructor at night. Although
he
wasn't ready for his checkride, he also wasn't completely ignorant of
IFR.
Clearly he was a victim of spatial disorientation, which certainly can
happen at night, but that particular night he had at least some
moonlight.
That's why I think he probably got into a bit of IMC and lost it before
the
crash. I think it would have taken more than just a bit of haze to
trip
him
up.

He couldn't multi-task and was in MT overload adding spatial
disorientation, pitiful pre-flight and a bad foot. He screwed the pooch
when he failed to redirect his bank prior to pitch, spiral city.

His CFIs should have picked up on this MT thing..perhaps.

They did.

"The CFI stated that the pilot's basic instrument flying skills and
simulator work were excellent. However, the CFI stated that the pilot had
trouble managing multiple tasks while flying, which he felt was normal
for
the pilot's level of experience."

Hmmmm, 300 hours dual and still having this problem. It was his
decision, probably thinking that he could auto pilot most of the way. So
many majorly bad decisions.

1) He didn't have 300 hours of dual, but even if he did that would be mostly
irrelevant. You learn how to multitask better solo than you do with another
pilot on board.

2) What part of "...he felt was normal for the pilot's level of experience."
didn't you understand?

I've flown with plenty of 300 hour pilots who don't multitask well and some
of them had their instrument and commercial. I didn't multitask well at 300
hours. That's something you pick up with experience.

Mike writes:

I think it would have taken more than just a bit of haze to trip him
up.

From what I've heard about him, it sounds like a bit of haze would be more
than enough to trip him up.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Mike writes:

I think it would have taken more than just a bit of haze to trip him
up.

From what I've heard about him, it sounds like a bit of haze would be
more than enough to trip him up.


Like you'd know, fjukkwit.


Bertie

Anthony, how would you know about Kennedy, Lindberg, or anyone else? Have
you ever flown with them? Of course not. Have you ever flown at all- of
course not.

So, you've never flown or even taken a lesson, yet you presume to judge
others who have actually gone through the process?

Not likely by any criteria.

On Oct 4, 10:43*am, Bob Noel wrote:
Mike wrote:
"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
Mike wrote:

Diamond already has this on some of their aircraft. *I don't know
that it has ever made a difference, however there are a large number
of fatalities caused by VFR to IMC (just like John-John).

John-John was VFR to IMC?

Yep.

hmmm, all the wx reports I saw were legal VMC (not smart VMC, but still
legal). *Do you have reference to reports that the conditions were not
VMC?

It doesn't matter if it was IMC for JFK Jr. On a moonless night over
water -- toss in a high overcast -- there's nothing but black to be
seen out of the window. In terms of flying, it's the same as being
inside a cloud. It could be 10,000 feet and 50 miles vis, without a
doubt legal vfr, but if you're not flying the gauges you're gonna die.
He most likely had marginal VFR, but was in conditions not too
different from what I had described above -- flying by outside
reference could have been close to impossible, even if VFR. John John
was a known risk taker, his family would rarely fly with him because
of that (ref -- the book "The Day John Died"). If you accept what his
friends said about him, he really was an accident looking for a place
to happen. The "Master of Disaster" was recovering from an ankle
injury he got earlier from an unltra light accident on -- ready for
this? -- the same Martha's Vineyard he was flying to.

Add in to his multi tasking that he was under major stress with the
magazine George, did not sleep at home the night before because of
arguments with his wife, and you have, in my opinion, a guy who
shouldn't have been trusted riding a two wheel bike, let alone a
tricycle with wings.

On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 06:05:22 -0700 (PDT), a wrote:

It doesn't matter if it was IMC for JFK Jr. On a moonless night over
water -- toss in a high overcast -- there's nothing but black to be
seen out of the window. In terms of flying, it's the same as being
inside a cloud. It could be 10,000 feet and 50 miles vis, without a
doubt legal vfr, but if you're not flying the gauges you're gonna die.
He most likely had marginal VFR, but was in conditions not too
different from what I had described above -- flying by outside
reference could have been close to impossible, even if VFR. John John
was a known risk taker, his family would rarely fly with him because
of that (ref -- the book "The Day John Died"). If you accept what his
friends said about him, he really was an accident looking for a place
to happen. The "Master of Disaster" was recovering from an ankle
injury he got earlier from an unltra light accident on -- ready for
this? -- the same Martha's Vineyard he was flying to.

Add in to his multi tasking that he was under major stress with the
magazine George, did not sleep at home the night before because of
arguments with his wife, and you have, in my opinion, a guy who
shouldn't have been trusted riding a two wheel bike, let alone a
tricycle with wings.

IMO, it was a collection of minor to major mistakes matched with a
resistant to death personality. Which being a Kennedy is either a
defense mechanism or utter stupidity...or both.