Sad day for Mxsmanic

Mike Ash writes:

The *engines turning* drains the fuel from the tanks. In other words
there is a strict time limit on all of these activities.

That time limit is not changed by incapacitation of the pilots.

Airports don't keep instructors sitting around on call ready to leap
into action at a moment's notice the way they do S&R, firemen, and
military interceptors.

They don't have to be on call.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Mike Ash writes:

Airports don't keep instructors sitting around on call ready to leap
into action at a moment's notice the way they do S&R, firemen, and
military interceptors.

They don't have to be on call.

If they aren't, it will take hours to find them.


--
Jim Pennino

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writes:

If they aren't, it will take hours to find them.

It only takes a few minutes.

In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:

Mike Ash writes:

The *engines turning* drains the fuel from the tanks. In other words
there is a strict time limit on all of these activities.

That time limit is not changed by incapacitation of the pilots.

Never, ever said it was. All I ever said was that there is a time limit.
Anything beyond that is your demented imagination.

Airports don't keep instructors sitting around on call ready to leap
into action at a moment's notice the way they do S&R, firemen, and
military interceptors.

They don't have to be on call.

They need to be in a position where they can be found and called in,
with enough time left over to find an identical airplane (or equivalent
simulator) and talk the guy down.

I'm not saying it can't be done. But it is a challenge and it has not
been demonstrated that it can be reliably overcome. I've never said that
it's impossible, merely that it has not been demonstrated to be
possible, and the gleeful self-assurance demonstrated by both yourself
and the author of the article in question are therefore not backed up by
reality.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

Mike Ash writes:

Never, ever said it was. All I ever said was that there is a time limit.

There's always a time limit. But it will typically be extremely generous
compared to the time required to find a qualified instructor.

They need to be in a position where they can be found and called in,
with enough time left over to find an identical airplane (or equivalent
simulator) and talk the guy down.

Unless they live at the North Pole, it shouldn't take too long.

I'm not saying it can't be done. But it is a challenge and it has not
been demonstrated that it can be reliably overcome.

Just getting a large number of airplanes to land safely in poor weather
conditions is a substantial challenge, but air traffic controllers meet that
challenge daily. The mere fact that it might seem insurmountably difficult to
you doesn't mean that it would be difficult for others.

I've never said that it's impossible, merely that it has not been
demonstrated to be possible ...

Since it has not been demonstrated, asserting that it is difficult has no
greater empirical basis than asserting that it is easy, at best.

... and the gleeful self-assurance demonstrated by both yourself
and the author of the article in question are therefore not backed up by
reality.

Neither is it invalidated by reality.

writes:

There's also the psychological issue that most people think without
constant "tending" of the airplane by both the pilots and air traffic
control, an airplane will fall out of the sky.

Not everyone believes that.

Your average person would likely be paralyzed by fear if told they had
to land the airplane.

I seriously doubt that. Most people aren't quite that irrational, especially
under pressure.

Then there is the practical issue of finding someone who can tell a
totally ignorant person how to find the necessary buttons to push
and what to enter entirely from memory for a given random aircraft
type. There is a reason for type training by airlines.

You can put the instructor in a sim, and it's not hard to locate the buttons.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

There's also the psychological issue that most people think without
constant "tending" of the airplane by both the pilots and air traffic
control, an airplane will fall out of the sky.

Not everyone believes that.

Wrong yet again; most people do in fact believe that.

Your average person would likely be paralyzed by fear if told they had
to land the airplane.

I seriously doubt that. Most people aren't quite that irrational, especially
under pressure.

Having seen the reactions people who have actually been trained to
respond in pressure situations, I can assure you that it is true.

Then there is the practical issue of finding someone who can tell a
totally ignorant person how to find the necessary buttons to push
and what to enter entirely from memory for a given random aircraft
type. There is a reason for type training by airlines.

You can put the instructor in a sim, and it's not hard to locate the buttons.

How many realistic sims down to the switch position level for any given
random aircraft do you thing exist in the world given they cost millions
of dollars?


--
Jim Pennino

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writes:

Having seen the reactions people who have actually been trained to
respond in pressure situations, I can assure you that it is true.

I have also seen these reactions, and they do not match your assertion.

How many realistic sims down to the switch position level for any given
random aircraft do you thing exist in the world given they cost millions
of dollars?

Quite a few ... and you only need one.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

Having seen the reactions people who have actually been trained to
respond in pressure situations, I can assure you that it is true.

I have also seen these reactions, and they do not match your assertion.

I highly doubt someone who is admittedly afraid of just about everything
in life has been in many life or death situations, if any at all.

How many realistic sims down to the switch position level for any given
random aircraft do you thing exist in the world given they cost millions
of dollars?

Quite a few ... and you only need one.

Quite a few amounts to a very small number scattered about the globe
and ATC has no phone list of such simulators, much less a list sorted
by aircraft type, and the numbers of people qualified to run such a
simulator.

You are delusional.


--
Jim Pennino

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writes:

Quite a few amounts to a very small number scattered about the globe
and ATC has no phone list of such simulators, much less a list sorted
by aircraft type, and the numbers of people qualified to run such a
simulator.

I'm reminded of a cartoon in which someone picks up a phone, dials a number,
and hears "U.S. Government, may I help you?"

ATC doesn't need phone lists of simulators or airline pilots or anything of
the kind.

Even I can find an instructor pilot in a few minutes with a few calls. Air
traffic control facilities can do the same thing, only much faster and much
more easily.