Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...

You pose a good topic for this group. There are going to be several
opinions offered so I will submit my commentary and hope this helps.
If you are serious about purchasing a glider even in a year or so, do
some research and focus in on a specific type of machine. Whether it
is glass, wood, or any other construction, find one to look at, sit
in, ask to help rig the machine. Ask lots of questions of an owner
who regularly fly's that particular model and type. Ask about the
sailplane log book and read the entries about maintenance and
depending on it's AW certificate type find out if there are entries
for each instrument installation, and modification. Purchasing a ship
with bad or sloppy paperwork can be difficult to rectify during an
annual inspection if you inspector goes strictly by the book. Check
to see if the hours are up to date and it has a current annual
inspection. Cheap prices can mean there are large maintenance items
pending. Having someone you pay to inspect and look for issues is
very cheap insurance to avoid potential problems to repair later. If
you do find a good machine, it must have a good trailer and fittings.
Nothing makes a misery more than a poorly organized trailer. The
annual maintenance costs will vary with each machine, be prepared to
spend at least $1000 annually. You may not have to spend this much,
but i'd be suprised if you didn't. after all you will need a better
Vario, or a updated PDA or maybe a flight computer, a new main tire,
or tailwheel, Self rigging dolly and the list goes on and on...


Buy what you can have fun with and stay within your budget,

Hope this helps

TU

All good answers above.

My suggestion is to ask the seller to have you help them assemble the
glider. This will be telling. It will tell you if YOU will be able
to assemble the glider easily and two people can do it, or if it too
difficult and needs more than two people. It will also tell you how
good the trailer is. To understand the continum of easy to difficult,
help those in your club assemble their gliders. This happens often
for glass (once a flight), but not very often for non-glass (once a
year). Or bring along someone experienced who will give you a rating
1-10. That is a good idea anyway to spot things that you might note
(blinded by visions of a new glider).

Hidden expenses - Not many. Insurance (get a quote) and annual
inspection is obvious. Tape, polish, etc is cheap. What might be a
surprise? An instrument that isn't working. They can be expensive
but this happens surprisingly seldom. But how can you test when you
are on a buying trip and the glider is on the ground short of a test
flight? (unlike powered, you will almost never get a flight before
buying unless its a two place) Answer, you basically can't. So get
the seller to guarantee the instruments are good. Most sellers will
not have an issue with this.

Trailers - Someone told me that the first glider you will buy for the
fuselage and cockpit, and the second for the trailer. For the $10K
range, you will most likely not get a great trailer. The assembly
test above is key to seeing if the trailer is good enough for you. I
love my trailer and its a homebuilt! The only problem is that it is
heavier than the nicer fiberglass/aluminum trailers. How mechanical
are you? You might be able to take an iffy trailer and fix it up
(easier than fixing up an iffy glider's airframe). I went from a
trailer that was OK to rig to one that is really quite easy to rig by
adding a few innovations of my own.

Automatic control hook ups - For $10K you probably won't get this. I
have a DG-101 and it has hotellier. Not too bad. Again, a trial
assembly is useful. DG's are basically easy to rig and easy fly.

My $0.02.

Good Luck,
John DeRosa
http://aviation.derosaweb.net/dg101

On May 5, 8:39*am, vic20owner wrote:
No, I am not planning to buy anything for at least a year ... but I
have often wondered what other "hidden" expenses or obstacles there
are associated with buying a used glider.

I regularly see older planes in the $10K USD range (which is well
within my price range). * BUT, for future reference, what inspections
are required for the glider to be considered air worthy, and what else
should I know before considering such a purchase aside from obvious
structural damage or electrical problems? *How much damage should I
consider "normal wear and tear" such as delaminating wing tips, bent
rudder, etc which is a relatively easy repair versus something which
is major (wing struts, etc)?

Also, is there any specific paperwork (flight hours, maintenance
records, etc) I should insist on seeing, etc. *Is it common to pay
someone else to inspect the aircraft prior to purchase?

Lastly, are there any specific gliders one should avoid as a first
used glider? (such as homebuilt kit planes, etc)?

Thanks
-tom


Tom,
You've read some sound wisdom here. There are a lot of opinions out
there, and some you can take with a grain of salt. The best way to
find the glider for you is to ask questions. You will quickly find
that there are pilots, and then there are armchair pilots. I've found
that when it comes to certain biases about planes, it is generally
they that have never flown one that have the greatest biases. For
example. I was told never to buy a plane with a flying stab..."Too
sensitive", they said. Or, a glider without spoilers is too hard to
land. It's all bunk. It is just a matter of being prepared for the
plane you want to buy. Certainly I wouldn't advise that you to buy a
high aspect ratio super ship with flaps as your first plane. But there
is nothing wrong with getting a little performance for you to grow
into.

I'm sure your instructor would be happy to offer advice on your first
plane. From my very first flight, my instructor knew that I was going
to buy a plane and we talked constantly about it. I considered myself
to be an average student, and I went from a 2-33 to a Grob 103, then
right to a Pik-20. There was a steep learning curve for the Pik-20
becasue I had to book learn it then fly it, as there are no trainers
like it. I adapted, learned and survived. I'm now having the time of
my life!

When shopping for a plane I would also ask to see a current weight and
balance sheet. I got stung on a purchase by just asking whart the max
pilot weight was. The owner told me a number, but after the purchase I
found out that he quoted what was in the POH. After a weight and
balance was done I was shocked to find out that it actually was 35
pounds less than what he said. After adding a parachute I was already
overweight. I sold the plane and became a smarter shopper.

I'm sure you will make a smart purchase that you will enjoy for many
years.

Warren Evans

I'll reiterate what others have said about the value of a GOOD
trailer. Doesn't matter if the trailer is factory built or
homebuilt. What matters is how it works. How it works at holding the
precious cargo safely. How it works at making rigging and de-rigging
easy. How it works at protecting the glider from the elements. How
it works in towing stability and providing adequate space for "stuff"
like wheel chocks, wash bucket, towout gear, wing stand, tail dolly,
etc.

If the trailer is a knuckle-buster, the soaring experience will NOT BE
FUN.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

Thanks everyone for the very detailed replies. I have to admit I am
surprised at just how helpful the member of this list are to
beginners. I would prefer a 2 seater so I can fly with
friends,family, or other fellow pilots. At the moment (this may
change with experience) I am primarily interested in a Let Blanik L-23
or L-12 simply because I am flying an L-23 in my lessons and enjoy it
quite a bit.

-tom

In message
,
vic20owner writes

Thanks everyone for the very detailed replies. I have to admit I am
surprised at just how helpful the member of this list are to
beginners. I would prefer a 2 seater so I can fly with
friends,family, or other fellow pilots. At the moment (this may
change with experience) I am primarily interested in a Let Blanik L-23
or L-12 simply because I am flying an L-23 in my lessons and enjoy it
quite a bit.

When you learnt to drive, did you go out and buy a car like the one you
learnt in? Would you still enjoy driving the type of car you learnt on?
Do you still do the same type of driving you did when you learnt? When
I went solo just under 3 years ago I had barely been out of glide range
of the club. Then I started getting more adventurous and found the
performance limitations of the basic 1-seat gliders we have, so I got my
own bit of glass and am having a ball doing XC flying when conditions
permit.

I'd suggest you try as many different gliders as you can during the next
year before deciding to look for something. Try to have a go with some
more modern types including glass gliders - the Blanik you are flying is
basically a 50-year old design, updated a bit.

And think very hard if it's really appropriate to have a 2-seat glider
to give an occasional joy-ride. It will cost more to insure and
maintain, and be harder to rig. Wanting to do some flying with friends
is fine, but most of the folks I know use the club gliders for that.

--
Surfer!
Email to: ramwater at uk2 dot net

vic20owner wrote:
....I am primarily interested in a Let Blanik L-23
or L-12 simply because I am flying an L-23 in my lessons and enjoy it
quite a bit.


If you have *any* desire to fly xc, do *not* buy the Blanik - unless
you're guaranteed to land out at an airport and get an aero retrieve
home :-). As the joy of flying is important, so is the joy (or lack
thereof), of rigging and derigging. Also. it's much easier to get one
helper to pull you out of that hay field than the 2 or 3 helpers that
you'd need for the Blanik.

Tony LS6-b "6N"

Guys, great info ... many points I was not aware of regarding the
Blanik. Obviously I meant L-13 not L-12.. but anyway, sounds like I
have quite a bit more to consider than I had initially thought. Also,
I hadn't considered buying from over seas but this sounds like a good
option also... except for perhaps finding a way to inspect the plane
prior to purchase.

I have not flown a 1-26 yet, only a Grob 103 and the Blanik, however I
would have no problem with a 1-26 aside from the single seat. If I
went that route, I suppose I could rent a glider when i want to take
someone else flying.

-tom

In article
,
vic20owner wrote:

I have not flown a 1-26 yet, only a Grob 103 and the Blanik, however I
would have no problem with a 1-26 aside from the single seat. If I
went that route, I suppose I could rent a glider when i want to take
someone else flying.

In my opinion, and that of a lot of people I've talked to who are much
smarter than me, this is the right way to think about a purchase. A lot
of people say, "I want to buy a two-seater so I can give rides!" But
look around you: how many glider owners do you see who own a two-seater?
Odds are that it's a very small proportion. (At my club the number has
been either 1 or 0 since I joined, as compared to perhaps a dozen
single-seaters.)

What's the point of buying your own glider? Obviously individual reasons
vary, but it's typically so you can take it places, so you can fly it
cross country, so you can stay up as long as you want (and as long as
the weather allows) without someone telling you that your hour is up,
and so you can have something that's nicer than what your local club or
glider rental has to offer.

What happens when you take a passenger? They're usually around your home
field, so no need to take it places. They're rarely interested in flying
cross country. Half the time they get uncomfortable (or sick) if you try
to push past 30-60 minutes airborne. And knowing nothing about gliders,
they'll probably completely fail to appreciate how much better your
machine is than the club's.

It's possible that your situation is different, of course, but if you're
like most people, your best bet is to buy a good single-seater that you
will enjoy for your solo flying, and rent a convenient two-seater for
the relatively rare occasions when you take people for rides.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

vic20owner wrote:
....I am primarily interested in a Let Blanik L-23
or L-12 simply because I am flying an L-23 in my lessons and enjoy it
quite a bit.


If you have *any* desire to fly xc, do *not* buy the Blanik - unless
you're guaranteed to land out at an airport and get an aero retrieve
home :-). As the joy of flying is important, so is the joy (or lack
thereof), of rigging and derigging. Also. it's much easier to get one
helper to pull you out of that hay field than the 2 or 3 helpers that
you'd need for the Blanik.

Tony LS6-b "6N"