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#61
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Towpilot fatality in Oregon
On Sep 11, 7:38*am, GARY BOGGS wrote:
*The combination has killed more than one tug pilot and will probably take a few more. Andy This thought has been haunting me for quite a while now. *It seems to me that we need to change the way we train our glider pilots AND our tow pilots. *I think tow pilots need to start regularly practicing pulling the release when the glider gets too high. *If he has never practiced this maneuver, which 99.9% of tow pilots haven't, they will never do it in an actual tow going bad! *From the accounts here, both pilots have very little time to react, and if either pilot hesitates, it might be another fatality. *Glider pilots regularly practice rope breaks so that our reactions are correct and rapid. *Im going to start retraining all my tug drivers to give the glider pilot the rope if he gets too high and our glider pilots to just pull the release when he gets too high instead of attempting recovery. I have emailed Oregon Glider Pilot and asked him who he is but hes not telling. *How about it OGP, who are you? Additional training would be good. I also suggest some tests of the tug release on the ground with strong upward rope tension. I can imagine a setup with the tug secured to the ground with a pulley block rigged to a hangar roof beam allowing controlled tension and angle. I think you'll find even the inverted Schweizer release may not operate easily. |
#62
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Towpilot fatality in Oregon
bildan wrote:
On Sep 11, 7:38*am, GARY BOGGS wrote: *The combination has killed more than one tug pilot and will probably take a few more. Andy This thought has been haunting me for quite a while now. *It seems to me that we need to change the way we train our glider pilots AND our tow pilots. *I think tow pilots need to start regularly practicing pulling the release when the glider gets too high. *If he has never practiced this maneuver, which 99.9% of tow pilots haven't, they will never do it in an actual tow going bad! *From the accounts here, both pilots have very little time to react, and if either pilot hesitates, it might be another fatality. *Glider pilots regularly practice rope breaks so that our reactions are correct and rapid. *Im going to start retraining all my tug drivers to give the glider pilot the rope if he gets too high and our glider pilots to just pull the release when he gets too high instead of attempting recovery. I have emailed Oregon Glider Pilot and asked him who he is but hes not telling. *How about it OGP, who are you? Additional training would be good. I also suggest some tests of the tug release on the ground with strong upward rope tension. I can imagine a setup with the tug secured to the ground with a pulley block rigged to a hangar roof beam allowing controlled tension and angle. I think you'll find even the inverted Schweizer release may not operate easily. I tried exactly this test on our PA18 with US hook. I tied the rope to a post and tried to release on full throttle - turned out it was impossible. On closer examination, I found the hook to have a groove where the retaining bar rests. Once this was dressed out, the release worked again. Well worth having a look at yours. |
#63
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Towpilot fatality in Oregon
Gary, you're right to be concerned, but bear in mind when we did some
tests in the UK we concluded that in a worst case scenario there was NO CHANCE that either tug pilot or glider pilot would react in time, however well trained. Prevention is better than cure in this case, DON'T AEROTOW ON CG HOOKS. Do bear in mind that Schweizer hooks may jam under high loads (such as those produced when a glider pitches nose up on tow) and consider replacing/modifying them, it won't help in the very worst cases but it may well in some of the others. At 13:38 11 September 2009, GARY BOGGS wrote: =A0The combination has killed more than one tug pilot and will probably take a few more. Andy This thought has been haunting me for quite a while now. It seems to me that we need to change the way we train our glider pilots AND our tow pilots. I think tow pilots need to start regularly practicing pulling the release when the glider gets too high. If he has never practiced this maneuver, which 99.9% of tow pilots haven't, they will never do it in an actual tow going bad! From the accounts here, both pilots have very little time to react, and if either pilot hesitates, it might be another fatality. Glider pilots regularly practice rope breaks so that our reactions are correct and rapid. I=92m going to start retraining all my tug drivers to give the glider pilot the rope if he gets too high and our glider pilots to just pull the release when he gets too high instead of attempting recovery. I have emailed Oregon Glider Pilot and asked him who he is but he=92s not telling. How about it OGP, who are you? |
#64
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Towpilot fatality in Oregon
Chris Rollings wrote:
Gary, you're right to be concerned, but bear in mind when we did some tests in the UK we concluded that in a worst case scenario there was NO CHANCE that either tug pilot or glider pilot would react in time, however well trained. Prevention is better than cure in this case, DON'T AEROTOW ON CG HOOKS. Do bear in mind that Schweizer hooks may jam under high loads (such as those produced when a glider pitches nose up on tow) and consider replacing/modifying them, it won't help in the very worst cases but it may well in some of the others. At 13:38 11 September 2009, GARY BOGGS wrote: =A0The combination has killed more than one tug pilot and will probably take a few more. Andy This thought has been haunting me for quite a while now. It seems to me that we need to change the way we train our glider pilots AND our tow pilots. I think tow pilots need to start regularly practicing pulling the release when the glider gets too high. If he has never practiced this maneuver, which 99.9% of tow pilots haven't, they will never do it in an actual tow going bad! From the accounts here, both pilots have very little time to react, and if either pilot hesitates, it might be another fatality. Glider pilots regularly practice rope breaks so that our reactions are correct and rapid. I=92m going to start retraining all my tug drivers to give the glider pilot the rope if he gets too high and our glider pilots to just pull the release when he gets too high instead of attempting recovery. I have emailed Oregon Glider Pilot and asked him who he is but he=92s not telling. How about it OGP, who are you? Just out of curiosity, do the problems with releasing under high load that are known with the Schweizer hook extend also to the Tost hook? Ed |
#65
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Towpilot fatality in Oregon
Just out of curiosity, do the problems with releasing under high
load that are known with the Schweizer hook extend also to the Tost hook? Ed No, Tost hooks are fine. The Polish hooks are great too. It's a real shame the Mcfarlane replacement towhook is not able to be used on most Schweizers & towplanes though. It has a roller bearing, hardened ways, improved ring positioning and increased leverage. It looks much like a Schweizer hook and mounts w/same bolt pattern, however it DOES release under pressure. http://www.mcfarlaneaviation.com/new.../march2007.htm -Paul |
#66
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Towpilot fatality in Oregon
What stops it being used, is it just the lack of STC for each type of
glider/tow-plane? At 16:05 12 September 2009, sisu1a wrote: Just out of curiosity, do the problems with releasing under high load that are known with the Schweizer hook extend also to the Tost hook? Ed No, Tost hooks are fine. The Polish hooks are great too. It's a real shame the Mcfarlane replacement towhook is not able to be used on most Schweizers & towplanes though. It has a roller bearing, hardened ways, improved ring positioning and increased leverage. It looks much like a Schweizer hook and mounts w/same bolt pattern, however it DOES release under pressure. http://www.mcfarlaneaviation.com/new.../march2007.htm -Paul |
#67
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Towpilot fatality in Oregon
What stops it being used, is it just the lack of STC for each type of glider/tow-plane? Precisely, but that's a big 'just'... -Paul |
#68
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Towpilot fatality in Oregon
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:23:55 +0100, Chris Reed wrote:
Many UK thermals where I fly are narrow and sharp-edged. A couple of weeks ago I was hurled up *way* above the tug (I needed to pitch the nose down maybe 30 degrees to maintain it in sight), and was about to release when it all started to come back together and I regained attitude control in relation to the tug. This was only at around 200ft, probably aggravated by the effect of some building immediately upwind. I experienced something similar many years ago. I was flying a Std Austria in a competition in hot summer desert conditions in Vryburg, South Africa. When my turn came to launch, a Cessnar 180 tug pulled up in front. Just after I gave the signal for “all out” I noticed a dusty on the left side of the airfield. When we were rolling I noticed the dusty moving across the airfield towards our runway. Just after the tug got airborne it's left wing flew through the dusty. The Cessnar wing was pushed up to a 45 deg angle. I thought the right wing would touch the ground and that the tug would cartwheel. I was ready to release and anticipating having to fly over a cartwheeling tug. But the tug pilot got it under control and leveled his wings again. Then I hit the dusty - dead centre. There was a big bump and lots of dust. Moments later, the visibility cleared and I was way up – maybe 50 feet - above the tug. But there was a loop in the rope and the glider was under control. The runway sloped downhill and there was not enough length left to land ahead and not much scope for landing downwind towards the rest of the gliders on the grid. So I hung on, concentrating on keeping the loop in the rope, with my hand ready to pull the release if the rope got tight. Eventually the tug climbed to my altitude, I got back into the low tow position that we were using, the rope went tight and we completed the launch. I landed out that day and I never got a chance to talk to the tug pilot. I think if he had any idea where I was he would have released me. Ian |
#69
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Towpilot fatality in Oregon
On Sep 14, 3:18*pm, Ian wrote:
When we were rolling I noticed the dusty moving across the airfield towards our runway. Faced with the same situation again would you chose to release? Arizona has stong summer thermals many of which produce dust devils. It's not uncommon to delay a launch rather than fly into the path of one at very low altitude. Andy |
#70
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Towpilot fatality in Oregon
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:35:46 -0700, Andy wrote:
On Sep 14, 3:18*pm, Ian wrote: When we were rolling I noticed the dusty moving across the airfield towards our runway. Faced with the same situation again would you chose to release? Arizona has stong summer thermals many of which produce dust devils. It's not uncommon to delay a launch rather than fly into the path of one at very low altitude. Hindsite is 20/20 vision. There was a whole grid of gliders behind me anxious to get launched during the "weather window". Aborting may have seen me launching at the back of the grid, after the gate had opened. I noticed the dusty after I had given the all out signal. At that stage it was still 100's of meters away from our runway. Next time I saw it, was in my peripheral vision and the glider was already airbone. It was moving much faster than I would have expected and it turned out to be much stronger. Clearly we got that one wrong. The right time to hold the launch was before it started. But it was a pretty freak occurence. If it happened again I am not sure if I would call it right. Ian |
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