Biplanes and Triplanes were the best !

Stephen Harding wrote:

The comments concerning possible return of the commercial
airship makes me wonder about military uses of such an
air vehicle.

Are there any for today's military mission and needs?

The only thing that really comes to mind is possibly an
airship as a heavy lift vehicle (a really big Chinook?)
in support operations well behind battle lines or areas
of contention (if helicopters are vulnerable, think how
bad it would be for airships!).

I vaguely recall some not too distant, military driven
experiments in the use of airships, but now have no clue
as to what they could possibly have been.

SMH


It was only a few years ago that concerted efforts failed to destroy a
large ballon which managed to drift clear across the Atlantic despite
numerous holes being shot in it. I wonder if they really are all that
vulnerable?

Dave

"Dave Holford" wrote in message
...


Stephen Harding wrote:

The comments concerning possible return of the commercial
airship makes me wonder about military uses of such an
air vehicle.

Are there any for today's military mission and needs?

The only thing that really comes to mind is possibly an
airship as a heavy lift vehicle (a really big Chinook?)
in support operations well behind battle lines or areas
of contention (if helicopters are vulnerable, think how
bad it would be for airships!).

I vaguely recall some not too distant, military driven
experiments in the use of airships, but now have no clue
as to what they could possibly have been.

SMH


It was only a few years ago that concerted efforts failed to destroy a
large ballon which managed to drift clear across the Atlantic despite
numerous holes being shot in it. I wonder if they really are all that
vulnerable?

Dave

They've changed the aerostats so they now have burn wires built into the
main gas bag. If one escapes, rather than scrambling a plane they just
press a button and it quarters the main gas bag. No more chasing it across
the gulf or countryside.

Mike

robert arndt wrote:
Stephen Harding wrote in message ...

robert arndt wrote:

The new Zeppelin and plans for even larger types from around the world
arouse great interest but lack suitable funding. It WOULD be
absolutely amazing to fly in an 800+ ft long Zeppelin across the
Atlantic. That IMO is comparable to those that flew on the Concorde.

Especially traveling at mach 2!

Is there no end to advanced German technical achievement?


Notice how I said "from around the world"? Here's a site with airship
companies around the world:

http://www.myairship.com/

Don' you feel like an ass? You should.

I'm quite familiar with some plans in he US and UK to reintroduce
airships. I actually would like the plans to succeed. Seems like
a great way to fly.

As to feeling like an ass? Not particularly.

It's always difficult portraying humor in a NG when you refuse
to use little smiley faces to explicitly convey intent.

You clearly don't find what I wrote as amusing. C'est la vie.
Doesn't make me an ass because you don't recognize my sense of
humor.

BTW, the Hindenburg predated the Concorde by 3 decades and although it
couldn't do Mach 2 it sure was the largest thing in the air-ever, with
a spectacular view and luxury accomodations that won't fit on any
airliner. The 747 and A380 are gnats compared to that giant. In fact,
the Hindenburg was taller than most skyscrapers of the time.
Many people around the world want a come-back for the huge airships
and Lockheed is rumored to already operate a massive stealth airship
for surveillance. So what's your problem Steve?

Your lack of humor apparently. Or at least meshing with mine.

I actually would like to see both a new Concorde and the Zeppelin
return.

What's it going to cost?

We can travel to Europe via QE2 (guess that's QM2 now). It costs
a bundle. Similar service in the air won't be cheap. On the Concorde,
you paid top dollar for the speed. On the Hindenburg II, it will be
for the high level of service.

Will many be able to afford it, assuming they *want* it to begin with?
Remember, the purpose of getting on an air machine has always been to
get somewhere, and typically, to *get somewhere quickly*. Not an
airship trait. (Airships could get right into a city destination,
eliminating the drive from the airport, which can be attractive).

But just as there are ocean cruises that are the purpose all to
themselves, I suppose there could be airship "cruises" as well. It
would be neat if it isn't prohibitively expensive.

And lighten up, OK?


SMH

Stephen Harding wrote:

Remember, the purpose of getting on an air machine has always been to
get somewhere, and typically, to *get somewhere quickly*. Not an
airship trait.

Why not commercial ground-effect vehicles (i.e: "Caspian Sea
Monsters") that theoretically could make transatlantic trips
at approximately .5 mach economically, safely and luxuriously?

http://www.att-nn.com/ENGL/MPE.htm

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...
Stephen Harding wrote:

Remember, the purpose of getting on an air machine has always been to
get somewhere, and typically, to *get somewhere quickly*. Not an
airship trait.

Why not commercial ground-effect vehicles (i.e: "Caspian Sea
Monsters") that theoretically could make transatlantic trips
at approximately .5 mach economically, safely and luxuriously?

http://www.att-nn.com/ENGL/MPE.htm


Those ae fine in low wave states but the notion of doing that
speed in the North Atlantic is not attractive, a large wave
could have serious effects on your health.

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:
Stephen Harding wrote:

Remember, the purpose of getting on an air machine has always been to
get somewhere, and typically, to *get somewhere quickly*. Not an
airship trait.

Why not commercial ground-effect vehicles (i.e: "Caspian Sea
Monsters") that theoretically could make transatlantic trips
at approximately .5 mach economically, safely and luxuriously?

http://www.att-nn.com/ENGL/MPE.htm

Those ae fine in low wave states but the notion of doing that
speed in the North Atlantic is not attractive, a large wave
could have serious effects on your health.

I could be wrong, but aren't these humongous vehicles capable of
climbing out of ground effect?

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...


Those ae fine in low wave states but the notion of doing that
speed in the North Atlantic is not attractive, a large wave
could have serious effects on your health.

I could be wrong, but aren't these humongous vehicles capable of
climbing out of ground effect?



Maybe but I doubt they could get up to the sort of level
you need to avoid the effects of a decent winter storm.

Bumbling along at a 1000 ft or so in a force 8 is apt to
produce a lot of unpleasantness back in the bay
for self loading cargo

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote:

Bumbling along at a 1000 ft or so in a force 8 is apt to
produce a lot of unpleasantness back in the bay
for self loading cargo

Keith

I've been there a bunch...it ain't real fun after about 12 hours
(looking at another 8 or so)

(The top fronts of your thighs get sore from smashing up against
the lap belt so you put your shoulder harness on tight to give
them some relief) I'm sure happy to be retired...
--

-Gord.

Stephen Harding wrote:

snip

Will many be able to afford it, assuming they *want* it to begin with?
Remember, the purpose of getting on an air machine has always been to
get somewhere, and typically, to *get somewhere quickly*. Not an
airship trait. (Airships could get right into a city destination,
eliminating the drive from the airport, which can be attractive).

But just as there are ocean cruises that are the purpose all to
themselves, I suppose there could be airship "cruises" as well. It
would be neat if it isn't prohibitively expensive.

Such cruises have been mooted for travel over nature preserves (Africa, Amazon, etc.). The ability
to drift with motors off at low speed is a big advantage of LTA. In a way, that was one of the first
tourist uses of Zeppelins. The Graf Zeppelin's round the world flight was essentially a high cost
cruise, and well before then day excursions over the valley of the Rhine or the Alps were being done
(pre-WW1, IIRR). In the Graf's case, they went over a lot of unspoiled country. Given modern
technology, I imagine there'd be a market -- there's certainly never a shortage of people who want
rides on the various advertising blimps in the area. Who wouldn't want to breakfast or dine in the
rooftop (sic) restaurant of a modern zepp, drifting along with the wind while the sun rises or sets?
Modern materials and design should more than cancel out the lift disadvantage of using helium. And
with the rise of eco-resorts in places like the canopy of the Brazilian rainforest, there'd be no
need to provide overnight accomodations on board, allowing a larger number of pax.

Guy