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  #2  
Old May 16th 10, 07:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
birdog[_2_]
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Posts: 27
Default Simulators

To MX: Son, you're way too defensive. And (in my humble opinion) taking this
MS simulator much too seriously. There's absolutely nothing wrong with
sim-flying as a harmless hobby. But you're trying to interlace it with the
real thing too rigidly, and thin out the dividing line. Real pilots get lost
and lose their planes, and sometimes their ass, in a farmer's cornfield.
Flatlanders too frequently fly into mountain sides in setting up IFR
approaches too low in mountainous country ( we once had three that flew into
the same mountain in a fairly short period). Pilots die as a result of major
lapses in judgement. I'm not saying that's part of the appeal, but it tends
to sharpen attention, and increase the heart rate. I think that difference
is why you attract some criticism. You do, however, stir up conversation
with some of your comments.

As to "avoiding" having to recover from unusual attitudes, etc., that is
what learning to fly is all about. Every pilot that has ever solo'd has
balooned on round-out, or had a puff of wind baloon you at near stall speed
on landing. You're expected to recover instantly and without a drop of sweat
or a seconds thought. How about you inadvertently come in too close behind a
big transport, and wing tip vortex rolls you upside down 30 feet off the
runway? Something I have experienced many times during training sessions -
you're doing a climbing turn, say to the right, air speed in marginal and
coordination is sloppy. Suddenly the top wing looses lift and the plane
whips violently to the left, and you find yourself nearly vertical and
inverted? (I never could intentionally duplicate this, but I didn't try too
hard, anyone want to explain?). Don't tell me these things never happen to a
seasoned pilot. With proper training, these things become incidents, not
disasters. And panic creates disasters.

I have entered two posts, and am delighted at the responses. Just goes to
show - post something of aeronotical interest and you wake up the pilots
here. Let's keep it up!


  #3  
Old May 16th 10, 09:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default Simulators

birdog writes:

To MX: Son, you're way too defensive.


I don't have to be defensive, since I'm not offended.

Pilots die as a result of major lapses in judgement. I'm not saying
that's part of the appeal, but it tends to sharpen attention, and
increase the heart rate.


If a pilot needs fear of death to fly correctly and safely, he has a serious
psychological problem. And if the risk of death is part of the appeal of
flying for him, he also has a serious problem. Both of these are highly
correlated with poor piloting.

Don't tell me these things never happen to a
seasoned pilot. With proper training, these things become incidents, not
disasters. And panic creates disasters.


How do you train for things that are inherently very dangerous?
  #4  
Old May 16th 10, 09:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
george
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On May 17, 8:19*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

How do you train for things that are inherently very dangerous?


By flying and training with instructors who actually fly..
  #5  
Old May 16th 10, 09:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
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Posts: 838
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On May 16, 3:19*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:

If a pilot needs fear of death to fly correctly and safely, he has a serious
psychological problem. And if the risk of death is part of the appeal of
flying for him, he also has a serious problem. Both of these are highly
correlated with poor piloting.


WRONG.
  #6  
Old May 17th 10, 01:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,892
Default Simulators

Mxsmanic wrote:
birdog writes:


Pilots die as a result of major lapses in judgement. I'm not saying
that's part of the appeal, but it tends to sharpen attention, and
increase the heart rate.


If a pilot needs fear of death to fly correctly and safely, he has a serious
psychological problem. And if the risk of death is part of the appeal of
flying for him, he also has a serious problem. Both of these are highly
correlated with poor piloting.


What part of "tends to sharpen attention, and increase the heart rate" do
you not understand?

Don't tell me these things never happen to a
seasoned pilot. With proper training, these things become incidents, not
disasters. And panic creates disasters.


How do you train for things that are inherently very dangerous?


Very carefully, obviously.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.
  #7  
Old May 17th 10, 03:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Morgans[_2_]
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Posts: 3,924
Default Simulators


"birdog" wrote

To MX: Son, you're way too defensive. And (in my humble opinion) taking
this MS simulator much too seriously. There's absolutely nothing wrong
with sim-flying as a harmless hobby. But you're trying to interlace it
with the real thing too rigidly, and thin out the dividing line.


That's nothing, but the tip of the "reality is lost" iceberg.

Ever hear about all the planes he pretends to own, or all of the flights he
takes for his customers?
How about how he waits at the airport for his customers to show up, and
sometimes he has to wait for the customer to arrive late?
How about bloging about all of this stuff, and about how he flies the entire
trip in real time, even in hours long flights?
Think I'm making all of this up? Not at all. It is out there in e world.
What I have put down here is just a couple of many things that show the loss
of reality. Perhaps 2% of it. It goes on and on.

How about how he always ends up a thread telling a pilot how the pilot had
handled a situation wrongly, and that his way was the correct way. Wait and
see. Every thread ends up going that way, eventually.

Your response to him was a waste of your time. He will not take any of
your advice, admit that you may be correct, or learn anything. After all,
his intellect is superior to yours, and to anyone else's intellect falls
short of his. If you don't believe him, just ask him. He will be glad to
tell you how much better he is, and how much smarter he is than you, or
anyone else that posts here, or that doesn't post here. That really narrows
it down, doesn't it?

Now I have wasted way too much time. I hope you go look up some of what I
have sent here, to confirm it for yourself. Perhaps then you will agree
that responding to him is a waste of time, any you and others will spend
your energy on other posters and other endeavors.

Have a good one!
--
Jim in NC


  #8  
Old May 17th 10, 04:16 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default Simulators

Morgans writes:

Ever hear about all the planes he pretends to own, or all of the flights he
takes for his customers?
How about how he waits at the airport for his customers to show up, and
sometimes he has to wait for the customer to arrive late?
How about bloging about all of this stuff, and about how he flies the entire
trip in real time, even in hours long flights?


You seem surprised. What do you think simulation is all about, exactly?

How about how he always ends up a thread telling a pilot how the pilot had
handled a situation wrongly, and that his way was the correct way. Wait and
see. Every thread ends up going that way, eventually.


That is not true.

Your response to him was a waste of your time. He will not take any of
your advice, admit that you may be correct, or learn anything. After all,
his intellect is superior to yours, and to anyone else's intellect falls
short of his. If you don't believe him, just ask him. He will be glad to
tell you how much better he is, and how much smarter he is than you, or
anyone else that posts here, or that doesn't post here.


That isn't true, either.

Now I have wasted way too much time.


How many times will you say that before you stop "wasting your time"?

I hope you go look up some of what I
have sent here, to confirm it for yourself. Perhaps then you will agree
that responding to him is a waste of time, any you and others will spend
your energy on other posters and other endeavors.


You've wasted a staggering amount of time, by your own definition.
  #9  
Old May 18th 10, 07:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Alpha Propellerhead
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Posts: 32
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On May 16, 11:57*am, "birdog" wrote:
. Pilots die as a result of major lapses in judgement.


(Pilots die as a result of minor lapses in judgement as well.)


As to "avoiding" *having to recover from unusual attitudes, etc., that is
what learning to fly is all about. Every pilot that has ever solo'd has
balooned on round-out,


One of our students who is about to solo had to contact tower and
report that there was a coyote on the taxiway that wouldn't get out of
her way.

I have a student who is 16 and very eager, wanted to take off and land
on his second flight. He plays MSFS so I have to do a lot of
deprogramming of dangerous habits, and required that he explain,
demonstrate and recover from approach and departure stalls, full, at
5000 ft, and then hold a falling-leaf stall until he could keep the
ball centered. The concept of stalls and stall recovery terrified him
on hsi first and second flights. It took him a couple of times, but,
he NAILED it.

On his first turn to final, a Navion cut us off (towered airport)
reporting engine problems, so we had to go around, circle right and
reenter in a right traffic pattern, with birds and student helicopters
in the vicinity. On final, a flock of Canadian geese flew in front of
us and the kid had to keep it together. When he touched down, he got
excited and stiffened his legs... big 6'1" teenager feet on the brake
pedals...

I too love flight simulators, but, sitting in the right seat of a
C-152 on short final with a teenage novice at the controls for the
first time... that'll put gray hairs on your head, but watching him
explaining stalls to his terrorized grandmother, and then seeing her
pride when I told her how well he'd done... That was cathartic. I get
the same feeling when I fly people around Mt. St. Helens, or fly a
brand new Cirrus with NWPilot (for those of you who remember him, he's
in Tarawa now, by the way, taking a new SR-20 from California to
Japan) or riding in a B-17.

-c
CFI/CP-ASEL-IA
 




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