Simulators

VOR-DME writes:

Let's just try; Most people are not as dishonest as yourself.

I have a reputation for being honest to a fault.

If you tell a real pilot you fly a Citation X, he has no reason to doubt it.
Lots of people fly this airplane. But when you tell him you fly it alone, and
you are "not interested" in CRM or flying with others, he will understand you
are full of it.

He will understand that I don't actually fly the real airplane. So what?

By the time it gets to where you REALLY don't know whether a
Beech Baron has an ejection seat, well then he's the one having fun at your
expense. Not that you would notice.

If he finds that fun, he is easily amused.

Mxsmanic wrote:

I never say that I fly a real airplane; I simply don't mention that it's
simulation.

The term for that is lying through ommision.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

writes:

The term for that is lying through ommision.

Omission isn't lying.

In article ,
says...
As for the FAA, I never talked
to them at all.

That assertion was your own.
I might have guessed it had no basis in fact.

VOR-DME writes:

In article ,
says...
As for the FAA, I never talked
to them at all.

That assertion was your own.

That wasn't my assertion. I said that the FAA was fooled. I didn't say that I
talked to them.

On May 17, 2:29*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
VOR-DME writes:
That is a very revealing statement. If you talk about simulated flying
experience and you do not inform the listener your experience was simulated it
simply means you are faking.

Not really. The fact that I simulate isn't necessarily relevant to the
conversation.

Nope. You're a fraud. That's what we're telling you. Over on
rec.aviation.student, the average low-time student might have NO IDEA
that you've never actually flown an aircraft, so you have no idea how
close simulation actually is to the real thing.

Furthermore, it would be trivially easy for you to go down to the
local airport and catch an intro flight around the pattern and maybe
log a little flight time, but, you don't even do that. Yet you
continue to challenge the experience and expertise of pilots, ground
instructors, flight instructors, simulator instructors, the FAA and
anybody else who contradicts your argument which, again, is based
SOLELY on what you've read somewhere or simulated.

Remember, virtually all aspects of simulation work just as the real world does ... that's the point. *Pull back on the yoke and pitch
increases. Extend the gear and drag increases. It doesn't really matter if it's simulated or real.

WRONG, AND DEADLY-WRONG. You have no idea, and to purport that you do
is dishonest. For perspective, since you dodge me: I fly C-172s in
MSFS. I fly and teach in a full-cockpit C-172 sim with a 180-
wraparound display. I fly and teach in a Cessna 172. For under $100
somebody like me--there are thousands--could show you the differences
between the three, but you choose not to do so.

Rather, you choose to insist that "virtually all aspects of simulation
work just as the real world does" even when pilots and instructors
explain otherwise. In that case, you just refute the credibility of
those people. You refer to them as "Yeager-wannabes," low time PPLs or
people who got their license to stroke their ego. You don't
acknowledge or respect guys like Dudley...you REFUTE THEM.

IFR procedures are executed in exactly the same way in simulation as they are in real life--so why mention
that it is simulation

Once again, you're profoundly wrong and you have no idea what I'm
talking about. Every IFR pilot who has ever used a flight simulator
does.

Recently I flew three people in a C-182 around Mt. St. Helens. One of
them was a geologist who had studied the mountain before the eruptions
and hadn't seen it since. We saw steam coming from the lava dome and a
herd of elk on the vast landscape of devastation.You can't simulate
that.

Last Saturday I rode backseat observing an IFR student hold a dead-on
ILS approach down to the minimums, under the hood and with the AI and
DG covered up and felt the joy of knowing that a fellow instructor's
student was a good pilot who was ready for his checkride. When we
returned we stood on the tarmac while a gleaming DC-3 rumbled past,
took off, circled the pattern and landed again. We felt the breeze
from its propwash and listened to a veteran tell us what it was like
taxiing such a large taildragger, and what it felt like to ride across
the United States, to see St. Elmo's fire on the wings, to . You can't
simulate that.

One time, a jet taxiied up, shut down, and Morgan Freeman jumped out
and chocked it himself. He flew in solo. On Sunday, a jet flew in and
within an hour, sparrows were trying to get into the downwind turbine.
I'm extremely familiar with MSFS, and you don't check belts for
tension or cowls for nests.

A B-17 comes to town and people behold it in awe, with actual tears in
their eyes. An as Pancho Barnes said it, "Some peckerwood's gotta fly
that sonofabitch, and that peckerwood is called a PILOT" And having
flown in and ridden in every position of a B-17, I can tell you with
100% authority, you CANNOT simulate that.

Joe Public comes into our FBO seeking rides in planes, not simulators.

There is a 100% probability that you will refute, discredit or dodge
my experience and perspective as both a simulator pilot and flight
instructor, and THAT is what everybody has been talking about and why
you have no allies here.

Alpha Propellerhead writes:

Over on rec.aviation.student, the average low-time student might
have NO IDEA that you've never actually flown an aircraft ...

So?

The object of these groups is discussion of aviation, not discussion of
people. So my background is irrelevant.

Furthermore, it would be trivially easy for you to go down to the
local airport and catch an intro flight around the pattern and maybe
log a little flight time, but, you don't even do that.

Actually, no, it's not trivially easy. In fact, it would be extremely
difficult, both logistically and financially.

Yet you continue to challenge the experience and expertise of pilots,
ground instructors, flight instructors, simulator instructors, the
FAA and anybody else who contradicts your argument which, again,
is based SOLELY on what you've read somewhere or simulated.

Apparently you are unaware that what I read was written by pilots, ground
instructors, flight instructors, simulator instructors, and the FAA. My
arguments are often taken directly from what they've written. Thus, there can
be no contradiction.

WRONG, AND DEADLY-WRONG. You have no idea, and to purport that you do
is dishonest. For perspective, since you dodge me: I fly C-172s in
MSFS. I fly and teach in a full-cockpit C-172 sim with a 180-
wraparound display. I fly and teach in a Cessna 172. For under $100
somebody like me--there are thousands--could show you the differences
between the three, but you choose not to do so.

I'm interested in more than just Cessna 172s, and in any case there aren't
likely to be any Cessnas near me. And, as I've said, what you suggest is
logistically and financially impossible right now.

As if that were not enough, I'm not at all convinced that a bumpy ride in a
noisy little airplane with my ears constantly popping would reinforce my
interest in aviation. And even if it did, since it could not be repeated, it
would still be a waste of time.

Rather, you choose to insist that "virtually all aspects of simulation
work just as the real world does" even when pilots and instructors
explain otherwise.

But pilots and instructors do not explain otherwise. You may be saying that,
but they don't. The only places where I see disagreements are in cyberspace
venues haunted by angry young men who would like me to believe that they are
experts in everything, despite evidence to the contrary.

In that case, you just refute the credibility of
those people. You refer to them as "Yeager-wannabes," low time PPLs or
people who got their license to stroke their ego.

Well, there has to be some reason why they obstinately insist that they are
right even when every other source I have says that they are wrong. It's
unlikely that the rest of the world is wrong, and the treehouse club is right.

You don't acknowledge or respect guys like Dudley...you REFUTE THEM.

I give everyone the same amount of respect. I acknowledge answers that appear
to be right. I argue with answers that appear to be wrong. I don't recall
Dudley being wrong as long as he talks about aviation in an objective way. Of
course, he has often been wrong about me, but if he refrained from talking
about me, that wouldn't be a problem.

Recently I flew three people in a C-182 around Mt. St. Helens. One of
them was a geologist who had studied the mountain before the eruptions
and hadn't seen it since. We saw steam coming from the lava dome and a
herd of elk on the vast landscape of devastation.You can't simulate
that.

Why would I want to? It has nothing to do with IFR procedures. Why do you
even mention it?

Last Saturday I rode backseat observing an IFR student hold a dead-on
ILS approach down to the minimums, under the hood and with the AI and
DG covered up and felt the joy of knowing that a fellow instructor's
student was a good pilot who was ready for his checkride. When we
returned we stood on the tarmac while a gleaming DC-3 rumbled past,
took off, circled the pattern and landed again. We felt the breeze
from its propwash and listened to a veteran tell us what it was like
taxiing such a large taildragger, and what it felt like to ride across
the United States, to see St. Elmo's fire on the wings, to . You can't
simulate that.

Why would I want to? I'm not interested in physical sensations. I don't
necessarily like wind in my hair.

One time, a jet taxiied up, shut down, and Morgan Freeman jumped out
and chocked it himself. He flew in solo.

And who is Morgan Freeman?

On Sunday, a jet flew in and within an hour, sparrows were trying
to get into the downwind turbine.

So? Why are you telling me these things? What does this have to do with
aviation?

I'm extremely familiar with MSFS, and you don't check belts for
tension or cowls for nests.

Not in the current version, no. It doesn't sound very enjoyable.

A B-17 comes to town and people behold it in awe, with actual tears in
their eyes.

Sheesh. Are these the same people that play One Six Right in a loop all day
long?

An as Pancho Barnes said it, "Some peckerwood's gotta fly
that sonofabitch, and that peckerwood is called a PILOT"

The name sounds vaguely familiar, but I can't place it.

And having
flown in and ridden in every position of a B-17, I can tell you with
100% authority, you CANNOT simulate that.

I don't fly a B-17, nor do I have any desire to.

Joe Public comes into our FBO seeking rides in planes, not simulators.

So?

There is a 100% probability that you will refute, discredit or dodge
my experience and perspective as both a simulator pilot and flight
instructor, and THAT is what everybody has been talking about and why
you have no allies here.

Why do I need allies? My concern is being right, not making friends.

On May 16, 10:27*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

Lets see just how much PIC time you can stack up against
the majority of the posters in the group.

Why?

Demonstrates you are not proficient in flying real planes. In fact,
you can't even say you are a proficient pilot. Maybe a proficient
MSFS pilot, but not a pilot of a real plane. As stated in another
thread, the two are not the same (MSFS and real life piloting an
airplane)

Let me guess, you are not even a CGI either are you?

No. So what?

Demonstrates you are not a credible source for flying real airplanes.

Anyway, if I talk about my simulation and people think I'm flying a real
airplane, then my simulation must be pretty good (it fooled the FAA once).. On
the other hand, if it's obvious that I'm simulating, then it doesn't matter if
I don't mention the fact, does it?

Demonstrates you are not a credible source for flying real airplanes.
Demonstrates you are not an honest person
Demonstrates you pretend you are something you are not.

Many PPLs don't know anything about any airplane except the one
they usually fly. *

Which is more then what you know. You don't fly a real airplane do
you?

I flew a Beech Sundowner. I don't need to know anything about Beech
Barons, Sieras, Lears, Citations do I? All I need to know is what a
Beech Sundowner does in the real world.

Nothing bad happens to me with my Beech Sundowner add in on MSFS.
Worst thing that happens is I restart MSFS.

I can't say the same in my real life Beech Sundowner or something
really bad will happen. What part of that do you not
understand???????????

writes:

Demonstrates you are not proficient in flying real planes.

A total lack of PIC time demonstrates nothing at all. I might be proficient
the first time I flew. Conversely, there are many pilots with hours of PIC
time who are not proficient.

In fact, you can't even say you are a proficient pilot. Maybe a
proficient MSFS pilot, but not a pilot of a real plane.

Practically the same thing.

As stated in another
thread, the two are not the same (MSFS and real life piloting an
airplane)

Not identical, but very close.

Demonstrates you are not a credible source for flying real airplanes.

See above.

Which is more then what you know.

No, it's not. Sometimes they know less about their flying than I do, which is
a bit worrisome.

You don't fly a real airplane do you?

Not currently.

I flew a Beech Sundowner. I don't need to know anything about Beech
Barons, Sieras, Lears, Citations do I? All I need to know is what a
Beech Sundowner does in the real world.

True. So I apparently know a lot more than you do about Barons and Citations,
since I fly those regularly in simulation.

Nothing bad happens to me with my Beech Sundowner add in on MSFS.
Worst thing that happens is I restart MSFS.

That's one of the advantages to simulation.

I can't say the same in my real life Beech Sundowner or something
really bad will happen.

Yes, that time may come. Probably in IMC.

On May 17, 1:16*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

In fact, you can't even say you are a proficient pilot. *Maybe a
proficient MSFS pilot, but not a pilot of a real plane.

Practically the same thing.

And what experience do you have to support this opinion?????? :YOUR
experience please in flying real airplanes. Or are you going to
continue to demonstrate you are not a credible source for flying real
airplanes

As stated in another
thread, the two are not the same (MSFS and real life piloting an
airplane)

Not identical, but very close.

And what experience do you have to support this opinion?????? :YOUR
experience please in flying real airplanes. Or are you going to
continue to demonstrate you are not a credible source for flying real
airplanes

Demonstrates you are not a credible source for flying real airplanes.

See above.

See above.

Above demonstrates you are not a credible source for flying real
airplanes

You don't fly a real airplane do you?

Not currently.

Above demonstrates you are not a credible source for flying real
airplanes