A Random Comment

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"birdog" wrote:
"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"birdog" wrote:
As I mentioned before, after I lost my medical, I tried to stay
close to aviation (to no avail) by trying radio control and
simulation. During my brief sojurn in radio control, I joined a
"flying" club that was quite active. But more than a few
radiologists, when they found out that I was a licensed pilot, kinda
sulled up - not actually defensive - just avoided me as much as
possible. I think they all wanted to be pilots, but for some reason
- finances (althought some of those models were more expensive than
some of our early planes), the wife, inertia, etc. I think the final
straw for me when I saw a picture in one of their magazines showing
a modeler with helmet, goggles and scarf, landing a model biplane.

Interesting - I'd be curious to know what you think would transpire
if you tried posting the above paragraph to rec.models.rc.air.

It appears you formed a sweeping generalization of a whole class of
people based on a few subjective conclusions on your part. Any reason
why you ruled out the possibility that they avoided you was because
you might have been exhibiting a haughty or condescending attitude?
In other words, if one
person avoids you, lacking anything other than speculation, it is
equal probability the fault lies with them or you. But when a whole
group of people avoids you, what do you think the probability is that
a group having
only one thing in common would all be at fault for that behavior, but
not you?

Did I say the whole group? Did I say all?

You wrote "I think they all wanted to be pilots," and while the context
is arguably ambiguous about who you meant to include in the "all" group,
it looked to me like you were dismissive of all.

But then I read your other post (which I didn't see till after I'd sent
mine) that indicated you had considerable respect for the skills needed
for their hobby.

Why are you being defensive?

I want to make sure no one disrepects me should I someday decide to wear
a kilt while flying an RC model of a DC-3 with Scottish Airline markings.
;-)

However, I only ever tried - and failed - to fly an RC model airplane
once about 40 years ago. I'm lucky to get an HO scale model train around
a closed track without derailing it. (It never helped our cause, while I
was a kid, that what few plastic model planes my brothers and I did get
and build that they'd eventually find a lit cherry bomb in or attached to
them as their last rites.)

I just thought your post, had it appeared in an RC group, was uncannily
like the kind of post that, ahem, "endeared" Mxsmanic to so many people
on this group. Well, it does require the right kind of personality types
on both sides for an unending ping-pong "discussion."

While I may be an obnoxious *******,

You have many peers in this newsgroup! :-) Still, no properly obnoxious
******* admits to being one, so if you aren't careful you'll be forced to
hand in your OB card. You're clearly a nice guy, but I'm willing to swear
on your behalf, should the case come up, that you were and are an OB.

I did make a few friends at the time, some with whom I still
communicate.

I'll pretend you never wrote that, considering your OB credentials are at
stake. :-)

Thank you for your endorcement my OB status. Everyone needs all the
support they can get.

Jim - when I first came on this NG not long ago, there seemed to be very
little on here pertaining to pilotage, etc. A couple of posts I put on here
generated comments, although the last one degenerated into a spitting
contest with MX - i.e. right back to my (personal) objection to start with.
My original post on this thread was intended as a feeble attempt to maybe
generate a discussion. It was in no way intended to denigrate anyone or
their hobby.

When I said that everyone in the RC club probably had a yen to fly the real
thing, those folks obviously have an intense interest in aviation - which
was the reason I got involved in the first place. I guess my point was that
there is no acceptable - for me at least - substitute for the real thing.

Amazingly, when I look back on years of flying, there really isn't many
incidents in my personal experience
that would be of interest to other pilots. Sure, I had a lot of
white-knuckle experiences, as any pilot has. I can't recall any instance
where I felt that I was in mortal danger.

Can I get some help here? Let's talk PILOTAGE!

"birdog" wrote in message
...

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"birdog" wrote:
-----------------much snipped---------------

Did I say the whole group? Did I say all?

You wrote "I think they all wanted to be pilots," and while the context
is arguably ambiguous about who you meant to include in the "all" group,
it looked to me like you were dismissive of all.

But then I read your other post (which I didn't see till after I'd sent
mine) that indicated you had considerable respect for the skills needed
for their hobby.

Why are you being defensive?

I want to make sure no one disrepects me should I someday decide to wear
a kilt while flying an RC model of a DC-3 with Scottish Airline markings.
;-)

However, I only ever tried - and failed - to fly an RC model airplane
once about 40 years ago. I'm lucky to get an HO scale model train around
a closed track without derailing it. (It never helped our cause, while I
was a kid, that what few plastic model planes my brothers and I did get
and build that they'd eventually find a lit cherry bomb in or attached to
them as their last rites.)

I just thought your post, had it appeared in an RC group, was uncannily
like the kind of post that, ahem, "endeared" Mxsmanic to so many people
on this group. Well, it does require the right kind of personality types
on both sides for an unending ping-pong "discussion."

While I may be an obnoxious *******,

You have many peers in this newsgroup! :-) Still, no properly obnoxious
******* admits to being one, so if you aren't careful you'll be forced to
hand in your OB card. You're clearly a nice guy, but I'm willing to swear
on your behalf, should the case come up, that you were and are an OB.

I did make a few friends at the time, some with whom I still
communicate.

I'll pretend you never wrote that, considering your OB credentials are at
stake. :-)

Thank you for your endorcement my OB status. Everyone needs all the
support they can get.

Jim - when I first came on this NG not long ago, there seemed to be very
little on here pertaining to pilotage, etc. A couple of posts I put on
here generated comments, although the last one degenerated into a spitting
contest with MX - i.e. right back to my (personal) objection to start
with. My original post on this thread was intended as a feeble attempt to
maybe generate a discussion. It was in no way intended to denigrate anyone
or their hobby.

When I said that everyone in the RC club probably had a yen to fly the
real thing, those folks obviously have an intense interest in aviation -
which was the reason I got involved in the first place. I guess my point
was that there is no acceptable - for me at least - substitute for the
real thing.

Amazingly, when I look back on years of flying, there really isn't many
incidents in my personal experience
that would be of interest to other pilots. Sure, I had a lot of
white-knuckle experiences, as any pilot has. I can't recall any instance
where I felt that I was in mortal danger.

Can I get some help here? Let's talk PILOTAGE!

Not to pick excessively, but just enough to maintain my own OB status:
PILOTAGE normally refers to a method of visual navigation by means of
landmarks--frequently with additional reference to maps or charts and a
compass.

You might possibly have meant PILOTING.

Peter ;-)

On May 23, 5:45*pm, Jim Logajan wrote:
(It never helped our cause, while I
was a kid, that what few plastic model planes my brothers and I did get
and build that they'd eventually find a lit cherry bomb in or attached to
them as their last rites.)

When I was a kid there was a paved RC plane facility
near my house and people came from miles around. All
summer long we'd hear the buzzing of those little motors.
Some of my 12 yr. old friends took to shooting B-B guns
at them from afar. Finally my friend Mike crawled out into
the tall grass and laid in wait for the perfect shot with his
new pellet gun.

He shot one down, grabbed it and ran like hell. Funny thing,
Mike turned out to be an overachiever. Guess we saw that
coming. I still remember that red balsa wood plane.

---
Mark

On Sun, 23 May 2010 16:45:41 -0500, Jim Logajan wrote:

"birdog" wrote:
"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"birdog" wrote:
As I mentioned before, after I lost my medical, I tried to stay
close to aviation (to no avail) by trying radio control and
simulation. During my brief sojurn in radio control, I joined a
"flying" club that was quite active. But more than a few
radiologists, when they found out that I was a licensed pilot, kinda
sulled up - not actually defensive - just avoided me as much as
possible. I think they all wanted to be pilots, but for some reason
- finances (althought some of those models were more expensive than
some of our early planes), the wife, inertia, etc. I think the final
straw for me when I saw a picture in one of their magazines showing
a modeler with helmet, goggles and scarf, landing a model biplane.

Interesting - I'd be curious to know what you think would transpire
if you tried posting the above paragraph to rec.models.rc.air.

It appears you formed a sweeping generalization of a whole class of
people based on a few subjective conclusions on your part. Any reason
why you ruled out the possibility that they avoided you was because
you might have been exhibiting a haughty or condescending attitude?
In other words, if one
person avoids you, lacking anything other than speculation, it is
equal probability the fault lies with them or you. But when a whole
group of people avoids you, what do you think the probability is that
a group having
only one thing in common would all be at fault for that behavior, but
not you?

Did I say the whole group? Did I say all?

You wrote "I think they all wanted to be pilots," and while the context
is arguably ambiguous about who you meant to include in the "all" group,
it looked to me like you were dismissive of all.

But then I read your other post (which I didn't see till after I'd sent
mine) that indicated you had considerable respect for the skills needed
for their hobby.

Why are you being defensive?

I want to make sure no one disrepects me should I someday decide to wear
a kilt while flying an RC model of a DC-3 with Scottish Airline markings.
;-)

However, I only ever tried - and failed - to fly an RC model airplane
once about 40 years ago. I'm lucky to get an HO scale model train around
a closed track without derailing it. (It never helped our cause, while I
was a kid, that what few plastic model planes my brothers and I did get
and build that they'd eventually find a lit cherry bomb in or attached to
them as their last rites.)

I just thought your post, had it appeared in an RC group, was uncannily
like the kind of post that, ahem, "endeared" Mxsmanic to so many people
on this group. Well, it does require the right kind of personality types
on both sides for an unending ping-pong "discussion."

While I may be an obnoxious *******,

You have many peers in this newsgroup! :-) Still, no properly obnoxious
******* admits to being one, so if you aren't careful you'll be forced to
hand in your OB card. You're clearly a nice guy, but I'm willing to swear
on your behalf, should the case come up, that you were and are an OB.

I did make a few friends at the time, some with whom I still
communicate.

I'll pretend you never wrote that, considering your OB credentials are at
stake. :-)

When I was a kid there was a paved RC plane facility near my house
and people came from yards around. All summer long we'd hear the
buzzing of those little motors. One of my 12 yr. old friends, I only
had one for about fifteen minutes, took to shooting B-B guns at them
from afar.

Finally my friend Mike crawled out into the tall grass and
laid in wait for the perfect shot with his new pellet gun. I was
thrilled! Mike likes me!! He really does!!!!

He shot one down, grabbed it and ran like hell. Funny thing, Mike
turned out to be an pedophile. Guess we saw that coming. I still
remember that red balsa wood plane. And sniffing the glue.
---
Mark

On Sat, 22 May 2010 12:15:24 -0400, birdog wrote:

Just got around to reviewing all the comments under "Simulators". I guess it
was inevitable that it ended up as disagreements with MX. While I don't want
to get involved with that dead end, I have had an experience that kind of
parallels.

As I mentioned before, after I lost my medical, I tried to stay close to
aviation (to no avail) by trying radio control and simulation. During my
brief sojurn in radio control, I joined a "flying" club that was quite
active. But more than a few radiologists, when they found out that I was a
licensed pilot, kinda sulled up - not actually defensive - just avoided me
as much as possible. I think they all wanted to be pilots, but for some
reason - finances (althought some of those models were more expensive than
some of our early planes), the wife, inertia, etc. I think the final straw
for me when I saw a picture in one of their magazines showing a modeler with
helmet, goggles and scarf, landing a model biplane.

I think this kinda helps explain MX.

No, MX is a highly functional troll with a long history outside of
RAP. Whether he wears a helmet, goggles and scarf, landing a model
biplane, I don't know.
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!
http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!

On May 22, 12:15*pm, "birdog" wrote:
Just got around to reviewing all the comments under "Simulators". I guess it
was inevitable that it ended up as disagreements with MX. While I don't want
to get involved with that dead end, I have had an experience that kind of
parallels.

As I mentioned before, after I lost my medical, I tried to stay close to
aviation (to no avail) by trying radio control and simulation. During my
brief sojurn in radio control, I joined a "flying" club that was quite
active. But more than a few radiologists, when they found out that I was a
licensed pilot, kinda sulled up - not actually defensive - just avoided me
as much as possible. I think they all wanted to be pilots, but for some
reason - finances (althought some of those models were more expensive than
some of our early planes), the wife, inertia, etc. I think the final straw
for me when I saw a picture in one of their magazines showing a modeler with
helmet, goggles and scarf, landing a model biplane.

I think this kinda helps explain MX.

There's a difference between simulate and stimulate: I choose M20J
over MSFS for stimulation of the aviation variety. Some pilots use
desk or laptop computer based simulators to improve a subset of their
skills, some non-pilots use them for other purposes, but you can't
commit aviation on a desk top simulator -- that is a fantasy world.
The confusion and argument here has to do with the difference between
subset skill improvement (unusual attitude recovery decoupled from
sensory input comes to mind, although aviators, not desktop simulated
aviators, understand overcoming sensory inputs is a large part of
unusual attitude recovery in the clouds) as opposed to gaming a
flight.

One area that would probably be useful is to simulate entering and
executing holding patterns with differing winds-- do the math in your
head, cross the fix within a few seconds of the 'expect further
clearance' time. Many of us might benefit from doing that for an hour
or two. Ditto NDB approaches with random winds. It saves the time and
cost of flying a real airplane, and I guess you can start out a few
miles from the marker time after time, without negotiating with
approach.

Of course I can't remember the last time I was given a "hold, expect
further clearance at" and the real world PITA about NDBs isn't the
flying of them -- it's the friggin communication -- little airports
in valleys, no line of sight to the center's antenna.

I don't buy into the idea of simulated approaches into new airports as
especially useful: There's very little difference from decision height
to the threshold on the ILSs I use.and a glance at the airport diagram
tells me how far from the threshold I should plan on touching down to
make the turn-off to the FBO I want to use. The most important part
of an approach, especially in the clouds, is formally brief yourself
(it helps if there are PX, you can brief them too) on what you're
going to do, especially if it's to near minimums, what to look for,
what will happen if you don't see the airport, that sort of thing. I
instruct the person in the right seat to say "You are visual" if (s)he
clearly sees the airport when we are well above minimums. I try very
hard not to peek until well within the reported ceiling/visibility, an
extra pair of eyes tends to make transition from instruments to visual
and then back again to instruments not as likely (although it's not a
big deal, is it?)

On May 22, 12:15*pm, "birdog" wrote:
Just got around to reviewing all the comments under "Simulators". I guess it
was inevitable that it ended up as disagreements with MX. While I don't want
to get involved with that dead end, I have had an experience that kind of
parallels.

As I mentioned before, after I lost my medical, I tried to stay close to
aviation (to no avail) by trying radio control and simulation. During my
brief sojurn in radio control, I joined a "flying" club that was quite
active. But more than a few radiologists, when they found out that I was a
licensed pilot, kinda sulled up - not actually defensive - just avoided me
as much as possible. I think they all wanted to be pilots, but for some
reason - finances (althought some of those models were more expensive than
some of our early planes), the wife, inertia, etc. I think the final straw
for me when I saw a picture in one of their magazines showing a modeler with
helmet, goggles and scarf, landing a model biplane.

I think this kinda helps explain MX.

I had a long ago pilot friend who owned a C 172. He was careful to
wear his 'pilot boots' and gloves when he flew (no goggles though).
That was one extreme. I might have been another -- many years ago I
traded safety pilot time for a guy working on his instrument rating
for him spending some time with me teaching aerobatics. At the time I
managed a group of professionals at a company a very short distance
from the airport. My guys would see me leave at noon with Jim, both of
us in our 'corporate uniforms' of suit jacket and tie. When we came
back an hour and a half later Jim would still look neat and
professional, I'd be a pale shade of green. sweated, tie askew,.shirt
wrinkled from the parachute straps, looking like I'd been beat up.
Now that I think about those days,I would not be surprised to learn if
a group member or two didn't conspire with Jim to end each session
with an outside or other negative G maneuver.