ASW20 or LS6

The ASW20 in its day was/is a racing thoroughbred, set up properly and
flown by a experienced pilot was the best glider in its era. But it is not
tolerant of mishandling, in particular use the flaps wrongly and it will
bite you and in common with other designs of the time the wing is biased
to a climb profile.
Later designs used by the LS6, ASW27 and Ventus had much more cruise
biased wings and outclassed the 20. The earlier LS6 A and B were OK but
the 18m LS6C is the gem, as is the 18m LS8 and command premium price. As a
15m ship the ASW27 is still at the top of the tree and should be included
in this discussion.
In short if you are a switched on pilot with not many bucks you will love
the ASW 20 and accept its vices. If you value the extra refinement and can
pay double the bucks the LS6C is a damn good choice. Enjoy either for your
own pleasure and goals, neither will make you world champion,

Dave

At 17:44 05 February 2011, Marc wrote:
On Feb 5, 5:16=A0am, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:31:23 -0800, Marc wrote:
I've owned a 20B, plus had several flights each in a couple of
differen=
t
20s and a 20C. =A0The 20B and 20C both had beautiful handling, no
tende=
ncy
to spin unless forced, and were well mannered in all configurations.
One 20 (low serial number, IIRC) would spin without much warning in
thermal or landing flap and always in the same direction (over the
top
if I was turning the opposite way), the other would do so only in
landing flap, both seemed a bit twitchy at times. I suspect
Schleicher
was still learning how to build glass gliders in a repeatable
fashion
during the 20 production run, the 20B/C show the benefits of
experience
(plus reduced landing flap travel)...

Curiosity: have you any idea what the serials were for those 20s?
Mine was 20034, so fairly early...

The worst of the two was in the single digits, it was destroyed
several years later in a fatal stall/spin accident with a low time
pilot at the controls. The other one I have no idea about. I'll also
mention that the most important reason I had at the time for buying a
used 20B instead of a 20 was the automatic elevator hookup, I've had
two soaring friends die as a result of disconnected elevators, and
both were far more diligent pilots than I...

Marc

On Feb 5, 2:10*pm, David Smith wrote:
In short if you are a switched on pilot with not many bucks you will love
the ASW 20 and accept its vices. If you value the extra refinement and can
pay double the bucks the LS6C is a damn good choice. Enjoy either for your
own pleasure and goals, neither will make you world champion,

I'm going to faintly disagree with you here, and say that the vices
had been pretty much worked out by the time the 20B and C went into
production, I've never heard of anyone having problems with either.
The 20 is a mixed bag, some (perhaps most) are apparently fine if set
up with non-aggressive CG, others seem to have issues with stall/spin
characteristics no matter how they are set up. The higher prices
commanded by the B and C models likewise reflect that extra
refinement...

Marc

On 2/5/2011 2:10 PM, David Smith wrote:
The ASW20 in its day was/is a racing thoroughbred, set up properly and
flown by a experienced pilot was the best glider in its era. But it is not
tolerant of mishandling, in particular use the flaps wrongly and it will
bite you and in common with other designs of the time the wing is biased
to a climb profile.
Later designs used by the LS6, ASW27 and Ventus had much more cruise
biased wings and outclassed the 20. The earlier LS6 A and B were OK but
the 18m LS6C is the gem, as is the 18m LS8 and command premium price. As a
15m ship the ASW27 is still at the top of the tree and should be included
in this discussion.

The LS6 is same vintage as the ASW 20B/C, at least a generation behind
the ASW 27. The :S6 a fine glider, but it is not a match for the ASW 27.
This pilot, and the other ASW 20 (and B/C) pilots I know, did not find
the LS6 to be superior in contests.

If you can afford an ASW 27, I strongly recommend it over the ASW 20 and
the LS6. It has a far more crash resistant cockpit, all self-connecting
controls, landing flaps, airbrakes that won't suck out, a disc brake on
the main wheel, and wonderful performance. It makes the LS6 and ASW 20
seem very old fashioned.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

Memories are funny things Eric, you forgot the LS6 won 4 world
championships, in 85, 87, 91 and 93 the ASW20 won once in 81 coming second
to a Ventus in 83 at Hobbs. But that is not to decry the 20, at 30 years
old it "IS" best bang for your bucks and still holds its value.
The higher price you will pay for an LS6 reflects the greater desirability
and the later 18m version is the most desirable of all. It stayed in
production until 2003, but in later years the factory was making mostly
LS8s, another desirable glider that will not be cheap.
In todays market recreational pilots want 18m span and an engine if
possible but an 18m LS6 will cost more than a Ventus C turbo of similar
age. However, lets not get into a discussion on the merits or demerits of
engines in gliders.

David

At 02:41 06 February 2011, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 2/5/2011 2:10 PM, David Smith wrote:
The ASW20 in its day was/is a racing thoroughbred, set up properly and
flown by a experienced pilot was the best glider in its era. But it is
not
tolerant of mishandling, in particular use the flaps wrongly and it
will
bite you and in common with other designs of the time the wing is
biased
to a climb profile.
Later designs used by the LS6, ASW27 and Ventus had much more cruise
biased wings and outclassed the 20. The earlier LS6 A and B were OK
but
the 18m LS6C is the gem, as is the 18m LS8 and command premium price.
As
a
15m ship the ASW27 is still at the top of the tree and should be
included
in this discussion.

The LS6 is same vintage as the ASW 20B/C, at least a generation behind
the ASW 27. The :S6 a fine glider, but it is not a match for the ASW 27.

This pilot, and the other ASW 20 (and B/C) pilots I know, did not find
the LS6 to be superior in contests.

If you can afford an ASW 27, I strongly recommend it over the ASW 20 and

the LS6. It has a far more crash resistant cockpit, all self-connecting
controls, landing flaps, airbrakes that won't suck out, a disc brake on

the main wheel, and wonderful performance. It makes the LS6 and ASW 20
seem very old fashioned.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Feb 5, 8:41*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
The :S6 a fine glider, but it is not a match for the ASW 27.
This pilot, and the other ASW 20 (and B/C) pilots I know, did not *find
the LS6 to be superior in contests.


My personal experience from flying and racing my 6b against ASW-20s,
ASW 27s, etc is that overall, the 6 is slightly better than the 20,
and the 27 is slightly better than the 6. And the 29 is slightly
better than the 27.

Of course, individual gliders vary enough to make up the difference -
in particular, some 27s I found easy to outrun and outclimb, while
others just plain left me in the dust.

As always, it mainly the nut holding the stick...

All are great gliders!

Kirk
66