Hey, Germany Invented It... Face It

"Andreas Parsch" wrote in message
...
Erich Adler wrote:


So, given the above, WHY THE **** [1] should I believe your drivel?!? I
believe in God, but everyone else has to present evidence.

Andreas

[1] Sorry for the loud swearing


No problem and tahnk you Andreas for reminding
us that most Germans are sane rational beings.

Keith

And I do not count those rather pathetic fake images of German disks all
over the web.

So, given the above, WHY THE **** [1] should I believe your drivel?!? I
believe in God, but everyone else has to present evidence.

Andreas

Well Andreas let's recount ALL the German wartime disc projects and
see what conclusions we reach:

1) Arthur Sack A.S.6: Private circular aircraft, one prototype,
constructed 1944, mostly made of wood with Me-108 cockpit and landing
gear and Argus engine. Flown by Me-163 pilot at Brandis in 1944. A few
hops and crashes due to misplacement of gear, low engine hp, and poor
rear control surfaces. Cut up for firewood. Photos exist- all real and
confirmed.

2) Fw VTOL: Circular VTOL aircraft patentented by Heinrich Focke,
patented in 1939. None built but construction of test models done
postwar. Photos exist of test models and theory of flight proven. None
constructed.

3) Viktor Schauberger Repulsin A&B Models: Discoid liquid vortex
motors. Repulsin A built 1940, tested until 1942. Repulsin B built in
1943. Both motors constructed at Mauthausen where the SS gave
Schauberger 20-30 engineers to work with him. In 1944, Schauberger was
released back to Austria. Photos exist of both motors- all real and
confirmed. SS supposedly enlarged the motors and installed them in a
version of Schriever's disc. Specifically, Miethe's design which flew
in 1944. Two photos of this disc aircraft were published in an Italian
magazine postwar. If you want them tell me and I'll post the links.
After the war, Schauberger was approached by AVRO Canada for disc
research- he declined. The US then pressured Schauberger to sign away
his designs to a US consortium. He died in 1958, robbed of everything.

4) Rudolf Schriever FlugKreisel: Schriever was an employee for Heinkel
that came up with a disc based on his observations of discus throwing
in the 1936 Nazi Olympics. His design was a circular cockpit
surrounded by a variable-pitch multi-bladed disc driven by 12 jet
engines. On the underbody two more jet engines were used for control.
Supposedly, his designs were taken by the SS (which actually DID
control all of Germany's and the occupied nations patents). Schriever
never had any control over his design which the SS assigned 3
scientists to work on: Habermohl, Miethe, and an Italian Dr. Belluzzo.
Only Miethe's design is said to have been built and it did not
resemble Schriever's original design due to the introduction of
Schauberger's Repulsin powerplant becoming available. Again, the
photos that exist are of Miethe's disc only.
When Schriever died among his papers were various disc designs along
with the original FlugKreisel.

5) BMW Flugelrad series: Disc jet-autogyros. Built at BMW Prague. All
used BMW 003 jets for power which were fitted with a thrust deflector
that reacted with another type of variable-pitch disc rotor
surrounding a cockpit. The body housed the BMW 003 and the gear was
fixed in the early models. Summary:

BMW Flugelrad I V-1: one built, flew in 1943 at Prag-Kbely. Flew up 1m
and 300m horizontally before making a rough landing. Highly unstable
and difficult to control.
BMW Flugelrad I V-2: one built, flew in 1944 at Neubiberg Aerodrome.
Cockpit enlarged for two crew, rudder added,and semi-retractable gear.
Did not fly well at all... tethered most of the time.
BMW Flugelrad II V-1: one built, flew in 1945 at Prag-Kbely. Another
jump at low altitude. All Flugelrads destroyed in April 1945.
BMW Flugelrad II V-2: under construction, not finished
BMW Flugelrad II V-3: Wind-tunnel model testing, none built
BMW Flugelrad III: Design only for stratospheric recon

No photos released yet. USAF admitted design in 1995...

6) Andreas Epps Omega Diskus: Disc with 6 fans for lift and four
rotating Pabst ramjets around the ring. Four 1/10th scale models built
and tested in 1944-45. Photos exist- real and proven. Design patented
postwar in 1956, offered to USAF. Declined. He also had an earlier
design powered by 2 jets on the body and two rotating jets above the
dome- 1939, but not patented.

7) SS Schildkrote: Possibly the mystery Feuerball (aka Foo Fighter)
menace that plagued the 415th NFS from Nov '44 to Apr '45 and then
showed up in Japan (via submarine technology transfer in Aug '45).
This one is a mystery as it has nothing to do with the Vril, Haunebu,
RFZ or any other German disc design. A photo exists of poor quality
but clearly seen is that it is unpiloted and has a large ring around
the domed body with some form of rocket motor slung underneath and 3
fixed legs. Could be an aerial flak mine to be detonated in a bomber
stream or a weapon that used Messerschmitt's electrostatic field
device that disable aircraft motors. Unknown...

8) Thule Jenseitsflugmaschine (JFM): Not an aircraft but a gateway,
portal, or some other form of otherworld travel machine. Disc form.
Constructed in 1922 and tested until 1924. Hurriedly dismantled and
stored in 1924 ending up at Messerschmitt's Augsburg facility. Fate
unknown. Several photos exist. No determination on what the thing was
except for Thule's claims of ET contact.

9) Freiberg crashed alien UFO: Disc, crashed in 1936. Supposedly
recovered by SS and taken to Himmler's castle at Wewelsberg for
reverse engineering (modern term). More likely investigated, taken
apart and tested. Any results? Unknown. No photos.

10) Thule/Vril RFZ series: Disc aircraft with a form of
electromagnetic propulsion.
photos exist for RFZ 1,2,3,4,6 but subject to speculation.

11) Vril series: Same as above.
photos exist for Vril 1,7,8 Odin and designs for Vril 2,9.

12) Thule/Vril Haunebu series: Larger, more powerful discs running off
Thule Triebwerk engine.
photos exist for Haunebu I, II, II-DoStra,but none for III or
Andromeda Gerat

13) Fw 500: Disc jet fighter project with rotating wing blades. None
built.

14) Henri Coanda Lenticular Disc: Lenticular disc. Coanda, like
Schauberger, was arrested by the SS and forced to work on disc
designs. Only models built before the end of the war. Design would
have used Coandas suction effect and been powered by 12 internal Jumo
004 engines with forking nozzles pointing outward from the disc rim.
Was deemed too costly to construct and abandoned. Design validated in
1949 in UK and patented in US in 1952 with none constructed.

So Andreas there seems to be a lot of proof that the Nazis were
engaged in disc research throughout the entire war. Many were just
patents and projects but some flew and the most successful are also
the most elusive. As you can see the SS working with Thule/Vril;
forcing Coanda, Schauberger, Schriever, and scientists to perform; and
stealing patents from various nations all played a part in the exotic
disc construction programs.
IMO, the victorious Allies only got the more primitive jet designs
because that is the direction immediate postwar disc programs took. No
equivalent to the RFZ, Vril, or Haunebu series came about until FFX
propulsion became available in the late 80s or early 90s. The supposed
NRO TR-3B ASTRA uses a similar engine to the Thule Triebwerke but is
not a disc- its a black triangle.

Rob

p.s. In the list I did not include the Lippisch disc designs nor the
Hortens because they were strictly postwar studies at the request of
the US.

Actually you have offered ZERO "proof" whatsoever! A lot of typing but NO
proof! post some links to these alleged photos NOT line drawings.

Actually ALL German disc research comes from US research during the
revolutionary war (the hetians found the objects and returned to Europe to
tell the stories) engraved stone tablets exist, confirmed and verified.
Why do you suppose these things never had wings? Because the Wright
Brothers et al hadent devised them yet!
Arther T. Farnsworth (not THAT Art Farnsworth) of Ooopseyepinchedda dookie
Delaware devised 3 flying discs out of nothing more than wood and a kind of
plaster and a complicated series of pullys and ropes connected to pedels in
the "manbasket" as he called it. When operated the upper disc rotated
clockwise while the lower disc rotated counterclockwise and created a great
wind, or as Art called it "mother-in-law whooshing" . The wind was collected
in a complicated series of wooden troughs which brought them to the bottom
of the central area of the disc where upon they were re-ingested into the
works and the wind speed increased. Unfortunatly Art always tired before he
could develope enough thrust to actually lift off. This led to the Ox
powered version and..................


"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
And I do not count those rather pathetic fake images of German disks all
over the web.

So, given the above, WHY THE **** [1] should I believe your drivel?!? I
believe in God, but everyone else has to present evidence.

Andreas

Well Andreas let's recount ALL the German wartime disc projects and
see what conclusions we reach:

1) Arthur Sack A.S.6: Private circular aircraft, one prototype,
constructed 1944, mostly made of wood with Me-108 cockpit and landing
gear and Argus engine. Flown by Me-163 pilot at Brandis in 1944. A few
hops and crashes due to misplacement of gear, low engine hp, and poor
rear control surfaces. Cut up for firewood. Photos exist- all real and
confirmed.

2) Fw VTOL: Circular VTOL aircraft patentented by Heinrich Focke,
patented in 1939. None built but construction of test models done
postwar. Photos exist of test models and theory of flight proven. None
constructed.

3) Viktor Schauberger Repulsin A&B Models: Discoid liquid vortex
motors. Repulsin A built 1940, tested until 1942. Repulsin B built in
1943. Both motors constructed at Mauthausen where the SS gave
Schauberger 20-30 engineers to work with him. In 1944, Schauberger was
released back to Austria. Photos exist of both motors- all real and
confirmed. SS supposedly enlarged the motors and installed them in a
version of Schriever's disc. Specifically, Miethe's design which flew
in 1944. Two photos of this disc aircraft were published in an Italian
magazine postwar. If you want them tell me and I'll post the links.
After the war, Schauberger was approached by AVRO Canada for disc
research- he declined. The US then pressured Schauberger to sign away
his designs to a US consortium. He died in 1958, robbed of everything.

4) Rudolf Schriever FlugKreisel: Schriever was an employee for Heinkel
that came up with a disc based on his observations of discus throwing
in the 1936 Nazi Olympics. His design was a circular cockpit
surrounded by a variable-pitch multi-bladed disc driven by 12 jet
engines. On the underbody two more jet engines were used for control.
Supposedly, his designs were taken by the SS (which actually DID
control all of Germany's and the occupied nations patents). Schriever
never had any control over his design which the SS assigned 3
scientists to work on: Habermohl, Miethe, and an Italian Dr. Belluzzo.
Only Miethe's design is said to have been built and it did not
resemble Schriever's original design due to the introduction of
Schauberger's Repulsin powerplant becoming available. Again, the
photos that exist are of Miethe's disc only.
When Schriever died among his papers were various disc designs along
with the original FlugKreisel.

5) BMW Flugelrad series: Disc jet-autogyros. Built at BMW Prague. All
used BMW 003 jets for power which were fitted with a thrust deflector
that reacted with another type of variable-pitch disc rotor
surrounding a cockpit. The body housed the BMW 003 and the gear was
fixed in the early models. Summary:

BMW Flugelrad I V-1: one built, flew in 1943 at Prag-Kbely. Flew up 1m
and 300m horizontally before making a rough landing. Highly unstable
and difficult to control.
BMW Flugelrad I V-2: one built, flew in 1944 at Neubiberg Aerodrome.
Cockpit enlarged for two crew, rudder added,and semi-retractable gear.
Did not fly well at all... tethered most of the time.
BMW Flugelrad II V-1: one built, flew in 1945 at Prag-Kbely. Another
jump at low altitude. All Flugelrads destroyed in April 1945.
BMW Flugelrad II V-2: under construction, not finished
BMW Flugelrad II V-3: Wind-tunnel model testing, none built
BMW Flugelrad III: Design only for stratospheric recon

No photos released yet. USAF admitted design in 1995...

6) Andreas Epps Omega Diskus: Disc with 6 fans for lift and four
rotating Pabst ramjets around the ring. Four 1/10th scale models built
and tested in 1944-45. Photos exist- real and proven. Design patented
postwar in 1956, offered to USAF. Declined. He also had an earlier
design powered by 2 jets on the body and two rotating jets above the
dome- 1939, but not patented.

7) SS Schildkrote: Possibly the mystery Feuerball (aka Foo Fighter)
menace that plagued the 415th NFS from Nov '44 to Apr '45 and then
showed up in Japan (via submarine technology transfer in Aug '45).
This one is a mystery as it has nothing to do with the Vril, Haunebu,
RFZ or any other German disc design. A photo exists of poor quality
but clearly seen is that it is unpiloted and has a large ring around
the domed body with some form of rocket motor slung underneath and 3
fixed legs. Could be an aerial flak mine to be detonated in a bomber
stream or a weapon that used Messerschmitt's electrostatic field
device that disable aircraft motors. Unknown...

8) Thule Jenseitsflugmaschine (JFM): Not an aircraft but a gateway,
portal, or some other form of otherworld travel machine. Disc form.
Constructed in 1922 and tested until 1924. Hurriedly dismantled and
stored in 1924 ending up at Messerschmitt's Augsburg facility. Fate
unknown. Several photos exist. No determination on what the thing was
except for Thule's claims of ET contact.

9) Freiberg crashed alien UFO: Disc, crashed in 1936. Supposedly
recovered by SS and taken to Himmler's castle at Wewelsberg for
reverse engineering (modern term). More likely investigated, taken
apart and tested. Any results? Unknown. No photos.

10) Thule/Vril RFZ series: Disc aircraft with a form of
electromagnetic propulsion.
photos exist for RFZ 1,2,3,4,6 but subject to speculation.

11) Vril series: Same as above.
photos exist for Vril 1,7,8 Odin and designs for Vril 2,9.

12) Thule/Vril Haunebu series: Larger, more powerful discs running off
Thule Triebwerk engine.
photos exist for Haunebu I, II, II-DoStra,but none for III or
Andromeda Gerat

13) Fw 500: Disc jet fighter project with rotating wing blades. None
built.

14) Henri Coanda Lenticular Disc: Lenticular disc. Coanda, like
Schauberger, was arrested by the SS and forced to work on disc
designs. Only models built before the end of the war. Design would
have used Coandas suction effect and been powered by 12 internal Jumo
004 engines with forking nozzles pointing outward from the disc rim.
Was deemed too costly to construct and abandoned. Design validated in
1949 in UK and patented in US in 1952 with none constructed.

So Andreas there seems to be a lot of proof that the Nazis were
engaged in disc research throughout the entire war. Many were just
patents and projects but some flew and the most successful are also
the most elusive. As you can see the SS working with Thule/Vril;
forcing Coanda, Schauberger, Schriever, and scientists to perform; and
stealing patents from various nations all played a part in the exotic
disc construction programs.
IMO, the victorious Allies only got the more primitive jet designs
because that is the direction immediate postwar disc programs took. No
equivalent to the RFZ, Vril, or Haunebu series came about until FFX
propulsion became available in the late 80s or early 90s. The supposed
NRO TR-3B ASTRA uses a similar engine to the Thule Triebwerke but is
not a disc- its a black triangle.

Rob

p.s. In the list I did not include the Lippisch disc designs nor the
Hortens because they were strictly postwar studies at the request of
the US.

1) Arthur Sack A.S.6: Private circular aircraft, one prototype,
constructed 1944, mostly made of wood with Me-108 cockpit and landing
gear and Argus engine. Flown by Me-163 pilot at Brandis in 1944. A few
hops and crashes due to misplacement of gear, low engine hp, and poor
rear control surfaces. Cut up for firewood. Photos exist- all real and
confirmed.

A simple disc shaped plan form, like any number of other ultra-short
aspect ratio aircraft ideas out of the '30s. Very much not a "UFO" prototypes.

( a lot of silly mostly Sci-Fi style fantasy or, more likely, post war
hoax stuff, though I would concede that there may well have been paper
projects using all kinds of voodoo "science" among the particularly
crackpot fringe of the Nazis)

So Andreas there seems to be a lot of proof that the Nazis were
engaged in disc research throughout the entire war. Many were just
patents and projects but some flew and the most successful are also
the most elusive. As you can see the SS working with Thule/Vril;
forcing Coanda, Schauberger, Schriever, and scientists to perform; and
stealing patents from various nations all played a part in the exotic
disc construction programs.
IMO, the victorious Allies only got the more primitive jet designs
because that is the direction immediate postwar disc programs took. No
equivalent to the RFZ, Vril, or Haunebu series came about until FFX
propulsion became available in the late 80s or early 90s. The supposed
NRO TR-3B ASTRA uses a similar engine to the Thule Triebwerke but is
not a disc- its a black triangle.

Rob

p.s. In the list I did not include the Lippisch disc designs nor the
Hortens because they were strictly postwar studies at the request of
the US.

robert arndt wrote:
{snippo ...]

So Andreas there seems to be a lot of proof that the Nazis were
engaged in disc research throughout the entire war.

"Proof"? Come on, gimme a break! You just retold the same old stories and
didn't quote _a single_ source on any of the weirder parts. You only say
"Photos exist" - where? And I mean genuine photos or negatives, which can
be examined for fakery and not - as I already said - blurry digital images
on less-than-reliable websites.

And BTW, patents are no proof whatsoever that something can actually be
built, let alone that it was actually built. You can patent almost
everything as long as it's unique - you do _not_ have to show that your
invention could actually work.

Andreas

Since everyone else is countering your ridiculous posts with fact, I'll go
to the base level: You're a profoundly myopic, ignorant and relatively
stupid individual. You've immersed yourself in an opinion and spent your
life supporting it, giving you detailed knowledge of names, numbers and
timeframes, but absolutely no ability to assimilate anything else - like,
oh, perspective or, oh, truth or, oh, reality.

U2 stealthy? If they copied German stealth no wonder the LW lost - I
used to intercept U2s at operational height and I gotta tell you the
weakest AI radar in the fleet, the ASG14T1, picked them up at 20
miles, the maximum range of its scope. Woo-woo alarm - On tinfoil
hats!
Walt BJ

Erich Adler wrote:

snip

Popular Mechanics is doing a cover that shows "when the UFOs arrive".
Imagine for a brief second what would happen if the UFO that
eventually lands is bearing the Iron Cross.

Just think about it, don't rush to conclusions. I don't expect anyone
to believe what I believe. This is America and you can disagree. But
don't attack someone to do it. Just state why you don't think so.

Peace,

Erich Adler


There's a verse in the New Testament (KJV), Hebrews 11:1, that goes "Now
faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not
seen." You, dude, are one highly religious individual.

David Windhorst -- former ministerial student turned atheist

I see that no civil discussion can take place here despite the fact
that you "adults" claim to cherish military aviation. So why all the
fuss about German aircraft, jets or otherwise?

I live in America now but don't like the blatant arrogance

snip, snip

Every American I have had discussions with usually end up in disaster
because the ignorant American can't get it through his thick skull

snip, snip


But ignorant Americans choose to believe lies instead.

snip, snip


Just think about it, don't rush to conclusions. I don't expect anyone
to believe what I believe. This is America and you can disagree. But
don't attack someone to do it. Just state why you don't think so.

Well, if you want to debate with people, why not try leaving out claims of how
uniformly ignorant and arrogant we are? In exchange, I'll try not to picture
you roasting my relatives in an oven.


Imagine for a brief second what would happen if the UFO that
eventually lands is bearing the Iron Cross.

Funny thing for a "German" to say - they never marked -any- aircraft with an
"Iron Cross". Balkenk or Haken - crosses go on your airframe, but
"Eisenkreuz" was solely an award for bravery. Little oops there, buddy...?

Gordon

Every American I have had discussions with usually end up in disaster
because the ignorant American can't get it through his thick skull

I know what you mean, after seeing some American write a crazy post about
Antarctic UFO bases..


Ron
Tanker 65, C-54E (DC-4)