Wingtips for PW-5

On Jun 9, 9:39*pm, RRK wrote:
You can't put lipstick on a pig...

Rich Fat Pig talking

HAHAHA...

No we debated it to death on here PW5's suck donkey balls.
Everyone knows that...

Winglets on donkey balls wont make those fly any faster either...

FLAME SUIT ON....

Where is lenny the lurker when you need him...
Lenny...?
Lenny.... ?

Originally Posted by

On Jun 9, 9:39*pm, RRK wrote:
You can't put lipstick on a pig...

Rich Fat Pig talking

HAHAHA...

No we debated it to death on here PW5's suck donkey balls.
Everyone knows that...

Winglets on donkey balls wont make those fly any faster either...

FLAME SUIT ON....

Where is lenny the lurker when you need him...
Lenny...?
Lenny.... ?

... Hehehhehe .. Mister ASW22 Pilot .. don't talk EVERYONE for me !!! ..
If anything I rather FLY "donkeyballs" then hold-them-sqize-them-and-run-around -- like some ASW pilots do ;-) ... hehehehe

Here in Midwest .. PW-5's (all of them ) are "out there high in blue" every time I stop at our strip .. when most of "expensive glass is packed in trailers "waiting for the better weather" ... hahaha ... see what flies ? .. donkey balls .. they DO !!!... hahaha :-)

KiloCharlie

On Jun 9, 7:09*pm, "
wrote:
On Jun 9, 3:54*pm, Bob Kuykendall wrote:

On Jun 9, 11:32*am, kilocharlie kilocharlie.

wrote:
Did anyone run across any information related to Wingtips
design/availability for the PW-5. This is understood that it will negate
PW-5 World Class categorization however shell be available to all PW-5
registered uder Experimental Cert...

The only PW5's I've met in person felt so lightly built that I'd be a
bit worried about whether there is enough margin for increasing the
root bending moment as you would with span extensions. Of course,
there might be enough margin for some modestly-sized winglets but even
those will increase the root bending moment somewhat.

You can't put lipstick on a pig...

Al

It is sad that some people want to take their precious time to try to
kill soaring or at least kill the joy of soaring for others. Al, do
you not care that others may find enormous satisfaction in soaring in
these lovely gliders? PW 5s are just as much fun to fly as the
expensive ships. Yes. I found it fun to fly a Duo Discus in Omarama.
But for places like Parawan, or any place in this country, nothing can
beat the fun of a PW 5. (I have over 1,100 hours in one, nearly all on
cross-country flights, some in wave flights; it’s not just for
beginners.)

When you use this world-wide forum just to kick sand in other people’s
faces, you are making it harder for those who are working to grow the
sport. Did you get THAT much pleasure in making a snobbish and
insulting remark? Some people who criticize lower cost gliders do so
out of a fear that they could not fly a lower L/D ship cross-country
successfully.

In response to the question, the PW 5 is not a “lightly built” ship.
Oran Nicks developed plans to build a PW 5 with extension winglets.
Nicks was a highly respected aeronautical engineer, instrumental in
the design of the space shuttle and was the US representative in the
selection of the PW 5 as the World Class glider. According to his
calculations, the structural integrity of this sturdy ship could
easily allow for the extensions. He home-built a PW 5 and was working
to encourage others to do so. Not only would it have both the “class-
legal” tips and the 15 meter tips, it could be stored in a
conventional garage (without winglets), thus avoiding the cost of a
hanger and long trailer. The goal was low cost gliding for those who
don’t want to spend a huge sum of money. I hope someone will pursue
this great idea.

On Jun 10, 4:20*pm, Vsoars wrote:
On Jun 9, 7:09*pm, "
wrote:









On Jun 9, 3:54*pm, Bob Kuykendall wrote:

On Jun 9, 11:32*am, kilocharlie kilocharlie.

wrote:
Did anyone run across any information related to Wingtips
design/availability for the PW-5. This is understood that it will negate
PW-5 World Class categorization however shell be available to all PW-5
registered uder Experimental Cert...

The only PW5's I've met in person felt so lightly built that I'd be a
bit worried about whether there is enough margin for increasing the
root bending moment as you would with span extensions. Of course,
there might be enough margin for some modestly-sized winglets but even
those will increase the root bending moment somewhat.

You can't put lipstick on a pig...

Al

It is sad that some people want to take their precious time to try to
kill soaring or at least kill the joy of soaring for others. Al, do
you not care that others may find enormous satisfaction in soaring in
these lovely gliders? PW 5s are just as much fun to fly as the
expensive ships. Yes. I found it fun to fly a Duo Discus in Omarama.
But for places like Parawan, or any place in this country, nothing can
beat the fun of a PW 5. (I have over 1,100 hours in one, nearly all on
cross-country flights, some in wave flights; it’s not just for
beginners.)

True... everyone can get enjoyment from flying anything, isn't that
the joy of flight?

But I think this sport takes itself WAY to seriously....
If you show up every weekend to fly a PW5 more power to you, I guess I
need to punctuate every post with a or LOL.

I am at a point in my life where I cannot fly as much as I want
because of business and family.
But I race every night with anywhere between 15-20 guys from France
and Europe on Condor to keep the XC strategy skills alive and find a
lot of enjoyment in that.
You can find the race results on http://condor-club.eu.

My Salto is about to be finished and will be flying that... Now
that's the same span as a PW5 and out performs a PW5 in every
dimension.
So I guess the message is fly what you can but always try to fly the
best you can get your hands on.



When you use this world-wide forum just to kick sand in other people’s
faces, you are making it harder for those who are working to grow the
sport. *Did you get THAT much pleasure in making a snobbish and
insulting remark? * Some people who criticize lower cost gliders do so
out of a fear that they could not fly a lower L/D ship cross-country
successfully.

In response to the question, the PW 5 is not a “lightly built” ship.
Oran Nicks developed plans to build a PW 5 with extension winglets.
Nicks was a highly respected aeronautical engineer, instrumental in
the design of the space shuttle and was the US representative in the
selection of the PW 5 as the World Class glider. According to his
calculations, the structural integrity of this sturdy ship could
easily allow for the extensions. *He home-built a PW 5 and was working
to encourage others to do so. *Not only would it have both the “class-
legal” tips and the 15 meter tips, it could be stored in a
conventional garage (without winglets), thus avoiding the cost of a
hanger and long trailer. *The goal was low cost gliding for those who
don’t want to spend a huge sum of money. I hope someone will pursue
this great idea.

If I recall correctly the Nicks fatal wounds were from the wing root D
section invading the cockpit as it cartwheeled after hitting an
obstruction.
With no leading edge cross tube there is not enough Fuz. strength to
prevent that from happening .

The Concept in all these smaller gliders is great but IMHO execution
of some is better than others is the reality.

Cheers

Al

On 6/10/2011 9:33 PM, wrote:


True... everyone can get enjoyment from flying anything, isn't that
the joy of flight?

But I think this sport takes itself WAY to seriously....
If you show up every weekend to fly a PW5 more power to you, I guess I
need to punctuate every post with a or LOL.

Far better would be avoid this kind of disparging comment in the first
place. Any humor in this point of view drained away years ago; now it's
just a cheap shot that causes bitterness among people that should be
friends.

It's worth remembering this: if you or any other pilot has not had a
flight farther than 986 km, you've been bested by a glider with wings
2.5 meters shorter than a PW5.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what
you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

Originally Posted by Vsoars

On Jun 9, 7:09*pm, "
wrote:[color=blue][i]

In response to the question, the PW 5 is not a “lightly built” ship.
Oran Nicks developed plans to build a PW 5 with extension winglets.
Nicks was a highly respected aeronautical engineer, instrumental in
the design of the space shuttle and was the US representative in the
selection of the PW 5 as the World Class glider. According to his
calculations, the structural integrity of this sturdy ship could
easily allow for the extensions. He home-built a PW 5 and was working
to encourage others to do so. Not only would it have both the “class-
legal” tips and the 15 meter tips, it could be stored in a
conventional garage (without winglets), thus avoiding the cost of a
hanger and long trailer. The goal was low cost gliding for those who
don’t want to spend a huge sum of money. I hope someone will pursue
this great idea.

His technical determination strongly support our opinion of this glider. We have seen so many "hard landings on PW-5's ... not-so-ideal takeoffs ... etc .. And they are still intact serving new and experience pilots with unmatched level of flexibility. And taking about assembly ... - quick and simple with only wing stand needed. Can't bit that. Reflecting on current trend we may let go reaming "metal" in our club and just rest on PW-5's as a solely one "intermediate" - "fun" fliers.
Looking around for wintips design/manufacturer .. we are puting together list of possible "takers"... in hope that documented interest will generate SOLUTION ;-)

KiloCharlie ...

PS..// yesterday .. "flat day" in Midwest ... Longest flights were ... DG400, Jantar Std and PW5 !!! (me at controls) .. ;-) .. were DG300 landed out and most of "glass" counted some 30 min mediocere flights ;-) .. go figure ..//

Originally Posted by Bob Kuykendall

On Jun 9, 11:32*am, kilocharlie kilocharlie.
wrote:
Did anyone run across any information related to Wingtips
design/availability for the PW-5. This is understood that it will negate
PW-5 World Class categorization however shell be available to all PW-5
registered uder Experimental Cert...

The only PW5's I've met in person felt so lightly built that I'd be a
bit worried about whether there is enough margin for increasing the
root bending moment as you would with span extensions. Of course,
there might be enough margin for some modestly-sized winglets but even
those will increase the root bending moment somewhat.

**** .. In a matter of fact, PW-5 is built in the "tradition" of other polish glass gliders ( Jantar, Acro etc ...) ... strong and over-engineered at best - LIKE TANK ... don't be fool by the light "feeling". I personally know a privately owned PW-5 which is loaded to the "brink" by its owner in order to get higher wing load for XC .. and it works rather well for him ..
Also, there are some tips that there were 15m PW-5 version with a retrac gear on their desks (politechnika Warszawska) ... but it never took shape since it did not comply with World Standard .. and SZD had Junior in prototype stage already ..
Anyway, in my opinion 0.7 meter wing extension with winglet would be a really nice performance enhancement for this ship. Make it swappable with original tips and you really would have a great XC trainer.
As for me ... I love it..
I am 6'4" ... and feel REALLY COMFORTABLE in PW-5 cabin ... being 210lb myself I use 4kg tail ballast for CG adjustment. In XC flight it beats anything but the modest glass costing few times over ;-) ...

Kris Cichon

Originally Posted by kilocharlie

Did anyone run across any information related to Wingtips design/availability for the PW-5. This is understood that it will negate PW-5 World Class categorization however shell be available to all PW-5 registered uder Experimental Cert...
I believe I SAW it only once somewhere in Australia (Website which I did not saved in my bookmarks - bummer me !!).
Solution incorporated exchange to standard and "extended" wingtips-with-winglets ..
I remember that it was mentioned to bring PW-5 L/D up to some 35-36 ...

Any info would be highly appreciated since we plan to use our PW's strictly for fun flying and all of them are "experimental" ...

Best Regards;

Kris Cichon (KiloCharlie)

Thank You guys for sending me this link (presented below) ..
Nope this is not a link I was looking for (one I remember was for PW-5 explicitly). However I see winglets building process is NOT THAT COMPLICATED AT ALL ...
We may evaluate it and design PW-5 oriented solution. Will see...
here is that link: http://gonzo-home.com/winglets.htm

However is somebody would find out about PW-5 wing extension / winglets solutions (or any other perf improvements) ... Your post / update would be highly appreciated...

Kris Cichon - KiloCharlie