Should SSA Regional contests allow water in FAI class...15, 18, 20,Open class?

On Dec 15, 10:41Â*am, Andy wrote:
On Dec 15, 9:57Â*am, Tony wrote:









Andy I think you are thinking about 6.8.3 and Hank is talking about
6.8.4.

6.8.3 â€* No-ballast rules
No-ballast rules shall apply on a day when the CD has announced this
prior to the first launch.
6.8.3.1 Disposable ballast is prohibited with the exception of
disposable tail ballast.
6.8.3.2 Fixed ballast is permitted, but not more than an amount that
brings the sailplane to its maximum handicap weight, as
defined in the SSA Sailplane Handicap List.

6.8.4 ‡ Limited-ballast rules
The CD may announce a limited ballast day no later than one hour
before grid time:
6.8.4.1 ‡ A maximum takeoff weight shall be announced.
6.8.4.2 ‡ Sailplanes may carry disposable ballast that yields a
takeoff weight not greater than the announced maximum.
6.8.4.3 ‡ Sailplanes may exceed the maximum takeoff weight only if
they follow Rule 6.8.3 and if they do not carry removable fixed
ballast (bags of shot, sheets of lead, or any other baggage whose only
purpose is to increase weight).

Yes you are probably right - although the limited ballast rule was
introduced in 2011 and not 2010. Â*Did any contest implement the
limited ballast rule in 2011?

Andy

We looked at using the provision at Logan region 9 contest in 2011.
We decided not to try it for a couple of reasons

1) For a given class when a flat weight number is used some gliders
will be at a disadvantage. Say you choose 800 pounds, and have a
ASH26 125.72 sq ft, ASG29 113 sq ft and V2CX 104.39 sq ft in the class
you can do the simple math and see that the V2CX has the highest wing
loading thus the advantage.

2) We combined the standard, and FAI classes into one class and there
is no provision for taking this into consideration when choosing a
weight. You cannot have a separate weight for each sub-class and in
this case the standard or 15 meter ships would have a big advantage.

3) It introduces more work to weigh the gliders and certified scales
will be needed.

I meant to document this and submit to the rules committee and suggest
a fix but did not get around to it. Plus I hate rule creep.

Ron Gleason

On Dec 15, 2:48*pm, Ron Gleason wrote:
On Dec 15, 10:41*am, Andy wrote:


Cordele Region V South allows water ballast. Sometimes, like this
year, it is really worthwhile.

2) *We combined the standard, and FAI classes into one class and there
is no provision for taking this into consideration when choosing a
weight. *You cannot have a separate weight for each sub-class and in
this case the standard or 15 meter ships would have a big advantage.


Actually the RC is one step ahead of the game this time. From the
rules appendix,

"In a mixed class (e.g. 15/18) regional, the CD may set different
weights for gliders
from each class, to establish a roughly equivalent wing loading."

That said, the partial ballast rule is really intended to address
unusual conditions such as a very soft field that makes full ballast
takeoffs unsafe. (Cesar Creek 2010). It's intentionally rough-and-
ready for this reason. The RC did not put in a wing loading limit,
which might be fairer, because telling everyone and the scales team at
9 am to figure out their weight at 8.25 lbs/ft^2 and grid at noon
would be a disaster. It's better in the majority of cases to decide
water or no water and keep it simple.


John Cochrane

On Dec 15, 1:39*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:
2) *We combined the standard, and FAI classes into one class and there
is no provision for taking this into consideration when choosing a
weight. *You cannot have a separate weight for each sub-class and in
this case the standard or 15 meter ships would have a big advantage.

Actually the RC is one step ahead of the game this time. From the
rules appendix,

"In a mixed class (e.g. 15/18) regional, the CD may set different
weights for gliders
from each class, to establish a roughly equivalent wing loading."

That said, the partial ballast rule is really intended to address
unusual conditions such as a very soft field that makes full ballast
takeoffs unsafe. (Cesar Creek 2010). *It's intentionally rough-and-
ready for this reason. The RC did not put in a wing loading limit,
which might be fairer, because telling everyone and the scales team at
9 am to figure out their weight at 8.25 lbs/ft^2 and grid at noon
would be a disaster. It's better in the majority of cases to decide
water or no water and keep it simple.

John Cochrane

John, thanks for pointing this out as I nor the CD was aware of the
provision buried in the appendix! Will it be moved to the main part
of the rulebook for 2012?

The pilots involved were concerned with the effect of the rule not the
intent so the provision in the appendix is quite important

For those interested the section from the 2011 Regional FA class rule
book states

A6.8.4 This rule allows some ballast when takeoff or other important
safety or operational considerations make the use of full ballast
inadvisable. It allows some equalization of takeoff weights, for
example to partially address the wing loading advantage of motorized
sailplanes. The maximum takeoff weight can be set to any value that
the CD determines provides a balance between fairness, safety, and the
operational consideration motivating a limited ballast day. In a mixed
class (e.g. 15/18) regional, the CD may set different weights for
gliders
from each class, to establish a roughly equivalent wing loading

Ron Gleason

Hi John

We apply a similar rule quite successfully in South Africa.

In our conditions you would be insane to not take as much water as you
are allowed at a contest.

Simple process - a max wingloading is chosen per class.
Then the max main wheel weight is established for that mass for each
competing type.
We have it easy, in that there are a relatively small number of contest
pilots and the SSSA contest organisers have an extensive database and
spreadsheets that do all the heavy lifting.

Each morning club class (dry) goes straight to the grid, every other
glider detours over a load cell - where it gets checked against a
printed list.
Wheel load less than or equal to allowable means keep going. Weight over
the maxium means get to the back of the queue after you have sorted out
your ballast. Works a charm.

There are always some people who are at a disadvantage - My Kestrel
can't reach the lowest wing loading they chose (I can't legally load
above 38.5kg/m2)

Very occasionally it pays to take less ballast - in which case the
clever pilots dump before the start based on actual conditions.

Very, very occasionally it pays to have the lowest wingloading possible
- then those of us that have vintage glass have an advantage.

Pretty quick and fair.

Bruce

On 2011/12/16 1:13 AM, Ron Gleason wrote:
On Dec 15, 1:39 pm, John
wrote:
2) We combined the standard, and FAI classes into one class and there
is no provision for taking this into consideration when choosing a
weight. You cannot have a separate weight for each sub-class and in
this case the standard or 15 meter ships would have a big advantage.

Actually the RC is one step ahead of the game this time. From the
rules appendix,

"In a mixed class (e.g. 15/18) regional, the CD may set different
weights for gliders
from each class, to establish a roughly equivalent wing loading."

That said, the partial ballast rule is really intended to address
unusual conditions such as a very soft field that makes full ballast
takeoffs unsafe. (Cesar Creek 2010). It's intentionally rough-and-
ready for this reason. The RC did not put in a wing loading limit,
which might be fairer, because telling everyone and the scales team at
9 am to figure out their weight at 8.25 lbs/ft^2 and grid at noon
would be a disaster. It's better in the majority of cases to decide
water or no water and keep it simple.

John Cochrane

John, thanks for pointing this out as I nor the CD was aware of the
provision buried in the appendix! Will it be moved to the main part
of the rulebook for 2012?

The pilots involved were concerned with the effect of the rule not the
intent so the provision in the appendix is quite important

For those interested the section from the 2011 Regional FA class rule
book states

A6.8.4 This rule allows some ballast when takeoff or other important
safety or operational considerations make the use of full ballast
inadvisable. It allows some equalization of takeoff weights, for
example to partially address the wing loading advantage of motorized
sailplanes. The maximum takeoff weight can be set to any value that
the CD determines provides a balance between fairness, safety, and the
operational consideration motivating a limited ballast day. In a mixed
class (e.g. 15/18) regional, the CD may set different weights for
gliders
from each class, to establish a roughly equivalent wing loading

Ron Gleason

--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771 & Std Cirrus #57

On Dec 15, 2:34*pm, Hartley Falbaum wrote:
On Dec 15, 2:48*pm, Ron Gleason wrote:

On Dec 15, 10:41*am, Andy wrote:

Cordele Region V South allows water ballast. Sometimes, like this
year, it is really worthwhile.


I gained a much greater appreciation for water ballast this year after
flying the Region 5 at Cordele. Strong conditions every day and flying
fully ballasted significantly improved
my results. I'm relatively inexperienced working with water, but after
a full week of ballasting and flying full all week, it became very
easy. I'd consider water every flight now if
conditions allow.

I'm absolutely in favor of allowing gliders to fly to their full
"performance" capability.

Steve Vihlen
SV