Club Class

Who is responsible for the USA "Club Class" list that BB linked?

The max weight they show for the LS1-B/C/F is incorrect.

The weight of 772 lbs is most likely for the "F" model.

My glider was built as a "C" then granted to become a "D" via a letter
from LS back in the good ol' days. The max weight was increased,
again only by letter and not by any physical change in the glider, to
752 lbs to allow for water ballast. The B and C probably have lower
max weights.

And why is the "D" model not listed?

Thanks,
Ray Lovinggood

On Dec 20, 12:30*pm, Tony wrote:
On Dec 20, 1:14*pm, "kirk.stant" wrote:









On Dec 20, 10:25*am, Tony wrote:

It was my impression that the tasking at the regional i went to was
satisfactory to everyone involved. *The circles were large thanks to
gliders ranging from my Cherokee to Dave Coggins' Nimbus. *If a pilot
felt we weren't flying far enough each day it was his own fault, IMO.
The weather was very consistent throughout the entire region which
definitely helped. My experience is a very small slice of the contest
world though, so I'm rather pollyanna-ish about the subject.

Tony, it is fundamentally impossible to create a fair, challenging
race (not organized timed XC) task when the range of gliders is
Cherokee to Nimbus. *Sure, you can throw out a short AAT with huge
turn areas and send them out - but that isn't racing!

I've got nothing agains the lower performance gliders - but I've CD'd
enough ASA contests to appreciate how hard it is to make challenging
tasks without stooping to the "fits-all" AAT.

The point is - get as many gliders as possible together at the same
time, sort them into similar performance groups, then task
accordingly. *What is so hard about that? *It's already done with FAI
classes! *Then we can see the return of the speed task, and put AATs
back where they belong - as weather option *tasks!

I am looking forward to the day I can get a club class glider though.
In the meantime I will have a lot of fun flying sports class in my
Cherokee.

Looking forward to racing with you!

Cheers,

Kirk


"I do like the idea of separating gliders by handicap range instead of
wingspan as has become an option in the last few years."

The above is really descriptive of where we are at now, in regards to
handicap racing in the USA.

There is another option for handicap racing in the US.

The existing four main FAI classes flown in the USA are really classes
formed by handicaps already, handicaps defined by performance,
dictated by flaps and wingspan, categorized into their perspective
class. It would not be a large conceptual leap to form classes
dictated by performance, regardless of flaps, age and wingspan.
Instead of Std., 15 meter, 18 meter and Open, divide the encompassing
fleet into three classes. This would allow more pilots to compete.
This is really a logical step, considering the fairly low number of
sailplanes and pilots, racing now. I think both the Std and Open Class
Nationals, last year, had 16 pilots each, including guests. There were
14 pilots in the 18 meter class. Allowing older sailplanes to compete
in these existing classes, with handicaps, would probably improve
attendance.

We have gradually grown into a "caste" system of sailplane racing and
the resulting effort to keep the classes pure (handicap wise), has
brought us to the lower numbers racing in FAI and the emergence of
Sports and Club Class.

If the resistance to adding another class is really because of the
ever dwindling number of racing pilots and sailplanes in the existing
classes, maybe handicapping the existing classes, that were
initially formed due to their handicaps, will vitalize class racing
again.

Just a thought.

Mike









66

Kirk,

now I understand better. *I didn't realize you were focused on
assigned tasks instead of TAT's. *Agree that with a wide range of
handicaps the assigned task is impossible to task fairly, which I
suppose is why it isn't used in the sports class.

I do like the idea of separating gliders by handicap range instead of
wingspan as has become an option in the last few years. *If Moriarty
would run a low/medium/high performance contest instead of just medium/
high i would probably go. only problem is i might be the only one
there.

On Dec 20, 5:12*am, "kirk.stant" wrote:
This whole Sports Class vs Club Class argument is absurd.

There are FUNDAMENTAL differences between the intent of the two
classes:

Sports is meant to be a "beginners" class. *Thus the shorter, simpler
(?) tasking, and letting any glider that shows up compete. *OK in
theory, except when you end up with a Blanik racing a Nimbus 4DM...but
if both pilots are beginners to racing, then it kinda works.

Club class is meant to be a serious racing class for pilots who don't
have the latest FAI gliders, but still wand serious competition with
challenging tasks.

There is a need for both; the Arizona Soaring Association addresses
this with 3 level of tasks when necessary, so that the task difficulty
better matches the glider performance and pilot skill of the
competitors.

I personally will not compete in a Sports Class contest unless it is
held in my back yard. *I will travel to a Club/Modern contest
(planning on attending Moriarty again this June - CH are you in?). *I
will also go to 15M regionals or even the Nationals if possible, even
if my LS6 is not quite as competitive as the latest V2s and 29s,
because I enjoy a challenging race.

My suggestion? Combine Club/Modern with Std/15 regionals, with
slightly shorter tasks for the Club/Modern. *Bigger field, bigger
contests, more fun. *Ditto Sports/Club; same venue and contest
management, different tasks/scoresheets.

Kirk
66

A quick phone call to AVEMCO revealed "they have been getting quite a
few calls this morning concernong the 100,000.00 limit. I was told the
1,000,000.00 limit would increase my liability only coverage from
$252.00 to $450.00.
What is Costello charging for liability only?
JJ

On Dec 20, 8:23*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
On Dec 20, 5:12*am, "kirk.stant" wrote:





This whole Sports Class vs Club Class argument is absurd.

There are FUNDAMENTAL differences between the intent of the two
classes:

Sports is meant to be a "beginners" class. *Thus the shorter, simpler
(?) tasking, and letting any glider that shows up compete. *OK in
theory, except when you end up with a Blanik racing a Nimbus 4DM...but
if both pilots are beginners to racing, then it kinda works.

Club class is meant to be a serious racing class for pilots who don't
have the latest FAI gliders, but still wand serious competition with
challenging tasks.

There is a need for both; the Arizona Soaring Association addresses
this with 3 level of tasks when necessary, so that the task difficulty
better matches the glider performance and pilot skill of the
competitors.

I personally will not compete in a Sports Class contest unless it is
held in my back yard. *I will travel to a Club/Modern contest
(planning on attending Moriarty again this June - CH are you in?). *I
will also go to 15M regionals or even the Nationals if possible, even
if my LS6 is not quite as competitive as the latest V2s and 29s,
because I enjoy a challenging race.

My suggestion? Combine Club/Modern with Std/15 regionals, with
slightly shorter tasks for the Club/Modern. *Bigger field, bigger
contests, more fun. *Ditto Sports/Club; same venue and contest
management, different tasks/scoresheets.

Kirk
66

A quick phone call to AVEMCO revealed "they have been getting quite a
few calls this morning concernong the 100,000.00 limit. I was told the
1,000,000.00 limit would increase my liability only coverage from
$252.00 to $450.00.
What is Costello charging for liability only?
JJ- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I didn't see any motor-gliders on the Club Class list. If so, you guys
just got my attention.
JJ