Flarm with Firmware 1.20 update

Chris, well said. Everything is politics over here lately.

Otherwise...I rest my case.

This has nothing to do with government...IMO. It has to do with glider pilots, high risk, safely and needless death that is assured of happening without a broad effort by intelligent people. Stop hiding behind the word mandate. It IS a free country so you make your own call and excuses (3 pages full...). The FAA takes way too long. More pilots will die in the US before FLARM is widely enough adopted and has a chance to reach its full safety potential.

Well, its back to playing darts with our fellow glider, power and airline traffic for awhile. Enjoy!

On Jan 26, 3:13*pm, Sean Fidler wrote:
Chris, well said. *Everything is politics over here lately.

Otherwise...I rest my case.

This has nothing to do with government...IMO. *It has to do with glider pilots, high risk, safely and needless death that is assured of happening without a broad effort by intelligent people. *Stop hiding behind the word mandate. *It IS a free country so you make your own call and excuses (3 pages full...). *The FAA takes way too long. *More pilots will die in the US before FLARM is widely enough adopted and has a chance to reach its full safety potential.

Well, its back to playing darts with our fellow glider, power and airline traffic for awhile. *Enjoy!

And the purpose of your rant is... what, exactly?

I cannot install in my panel what my dealer cannot ship. I've had a
Power Flarm on order since the middle of 2010 (I selected the brick
option when the choice was made available). A few hundred other would
be customers are in the same situation.

To Chris over in Europe... the US situation is rather different in
that a) the US is geographically huge and b) the US glider population
is very small. Glider clubs that launch eight gliders for a total of
perhaps 20 flights on a "busy" day account for a lot of US soaring.
There's no earthly reason to require or even strongly encourage Flarm
technology for such sparse traffic.

Based on casual conversation with numerous other pilots, likewise
waiting on delivery, I think we will find that Power Flarm gets well
adopted on the contest circuit and in the areas of the US that are
glider traffic dense. However, because the portable unit has only
just started shipping this Winter and the brick is still months off,
it will be 2013 before we have any sort of objective measure of how
well the device works and how many staunch anti-flarm pilots we have
to worry about in glider dense environments.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Evan,

That is all you can do. Your unit will be here in the spring. That is intelligent.

FLARM is proven in Europe. There is no question that it fundamentally improves safety in very much the same way that GPS improved navigation and radio's improved communication. No need to wait until 2013 for measurement.

I completely disagree with you that US operations have no earthly reason to use FLARM. I find that statement embarrassing for soaring. All it takes is once. All it takes is one glider and one tow plane. All it takes is one glider and one airplane flying by the airport. Should they not have radio's? Should the not have parachutes? Safety paint?

On Jan 26, 5:39*pm, Sean Fidler wrote:
Evan,

That is all you can do. *Your unit will be here in the spring. *That is intelligent.

FLARM is proven in Europe. *There is no question that it fundamentally improves safety in very much the same way that GPS improved navigation and radio's improved communication. *No need to wait until 2013 for measurement.

On Jan 26, 5:06*pm, T8 wrote:
On Jan 26, 5:39*pm, Sean Fidler wrote:

Evan,

That is all you can do. *Your unit will be here in the spring. *That is intelligent.

FLARM is proven in Europe. *There is no question that it fundamentally improves safety in very much the same way that GPS improved navigation and radio's improved communication. *No need to wait until 2013 for measurement.

I completely disagree with you that US operations have no earthly reason to use FLARM. *I find that statement embarrassing for soaring. *All it takes is once. *All it takes is one glider and one tow plane. *All it takes is one glider and one airplane flying by the airport. *Should they not have radio's? *Should the not have parachutes? *Safety paint?

Maybe I wasn't clear -- what I took exception to was the idea of
mandating Flarm in a sparse, relatively isolated club environment,
giving the example of a club with 20 ops/day. *Indeed, there are nordo
gliders, and still a fair amount of nordo power traffic (antiques) in
such places. *I'm not defending this, merely pointing out that some
folks choose to do it this way still.

In areas of high traffic -- contests especially -- I am enthusiastic
about Flarm and hope to see it widely if not universally adopted.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Evan, we lost a glider pilot and tow pilot just couple of years ago
in a pattern over a private strip belonging to a club with less than
20 ops per day. IIRC, this was the only op that day. To those who
insist they don't need powerflarm where they fly, I can only ask one
thing, please stay away from where I fly...

Ramy

On Jan 26, 2:31*pm, Evan Ludeman wrote:
On Jan 26, 3:13*pm, Sean Fidler wrote:

Chris, well said. *Everything is politics over here lately.

Otherwise...I rest my case.

This has nothing to do with government...IMO. *It has to do with glider pilots, high risk, safely and needless death that is assured of happening without a broad effort by intelligent people. *Stop hiding behind the word mandate. *It IS a free country so you make your own call and excuses (3 pages full...). *The FAA takes way too long. *More pilots will die in the US before FLARM is widely enough adopted and has a chance to reach its full safety potential.

Well, its back to playing darts with our fellow glider, power and airline traffic for awhile. *Enjoy!

And the purpose of your rant is... what, exactly?

I cannot install in my panel what my dealer cannot ship. *I've had a
Power Flarm on order since the middle of 2010 (I selected the brick
option when the choice was made available). *A few hundred other would
be customers are in the same situation.

To Chris over in Europe... the US situation is rather different in
that a) the US is geographically *huge and b) the US glider population
is very small. *Glider clubs that launch eight gliders for a total of
perhaps 20 flights on a "busy" day account for a lot of US soaring.
There's no earthly reason to require or even strongly encourage Flarm
technology for such sparse traffic.

Based on casual conversation with numerous other pilots, likewise
waiting on delivery, I think we will find that Power Flarm gets well
adopted on the contest circuit and in the areas of the US that are
glider traffic dense. *However, because the portable unit has only
just started shipping this Winter and the brick is still months off,
it will be 2013 before we have any sort of objective measure of how
well the device works and how many staunch anti-flarm pilots we have
to worry about in glider dense environments.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Evan,
We currently have 18 portable PowerFlarms that are in the possession
of pilots based at Moriarty. They have all received the recent
firmware and antenna upgrades. We have already seen some excellent
performance in the detection of transponder equipped aircraft, and
once the season gets going this spring, we should be able to provide
everyone some "real world" feedback on its Flarm to Flarm
performance...

Thx,
Renny

Renny,

I'd really like to have a look at your installation and hear your
impressions. Is this in your Discus or your new baby??

Dan

"Renny" wrote in message
...
On Jan 26, 2:31 pm, Evan Ludeman wrote:
On Jan 26, 3:13 pm, Sean Fidler wrote:

Chris, well said. Everything is politics over here lately.

Otherwise...I rest my case.

This has nothing to do with government...IMO. It has to do with glider
pilots, high risk, safely and needless death that is assured of
happening without a broad effort by intelligent people. Stop hiding
behind the word mandate. It IS a free country so you make your own call
and excuses (3 pages full...). The FAA takes way too long. More pilots
will die in the US before FLARM is widely enough adopted and has a
chance to reach its full safety potential.

Well, its back to playing darts with our fellow glider, power and
airline traffic for awhile. Enjoy!

And the purpose of your rant is... what, exactly?

I cannot install in my panel what my dealer cannot ship. I've had a
Power Flarm on order since the middle of 2010 (I selected the brick
option when the choice was made available). A few hundred other would
be customers are in the same situation.

To Chris over in Europe... the US situation is rather different in
that a) the US is geographically huge and b) the US glider population
is very small. Glider clubs that launch eight gliders for a total of
perhaps 20 flights on a "busy" day account for a lot of US soaring.
There's no earthly reason to require or even strongly encourage Flarm
technology for such sparse traffic.

Based on casual conversation with numerous other pilots, likewise
waiting on delivery, I think we will find that Power Flarm gets well
adopted on the contest circuit and in the areas of the US that are
glider traffic dense. However, because the portable unit has only
just started shipping this Winter and the brick is still months off,
it will be 2013 before we have any sort of objective measure of how
well the device works and how many staunch anti-flarm pilots we have
to worry about in glider dense environments.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Evan,
We currently have 18 portable PowerFlarms that are in the possession
of pilots based at Moriarty. They have all received the recent
firmware and antenna upgrades. We have already seen some excellent
performance in the detection of transponder equipped aircraft, and
once the season gets going this spring, we should be able to provide
everyone some "real world" feedback on its Flarm to Flarm
performance...

Thx,
Renny

Evan Ludeman wrote:

To Chris over in Europe... the US situation is rather different in
that a) the US is geographically huge and b) the US glider population
is very small. Glider clubs that launch eight gliders for a total of
perhaps 20 flights on a "busy" day account for a lot of US soaring.

While this is correct, think about what all glider pilots are searching all
the time: lift. As soon as you find a good thermal, the chance is that
another joins you very soon. Circling in thermals can get you very close to
other gliders, even if the airspace around you is empty. My near miss
happened at a small competition, we had a 250 km triangle. Even when we
crossed the starting line at different times we met each other again and
again, sometimes 5 or more gliders circling together at the same altitude.
When then the Flarm shriekes and flashes at another glider coming from
behind you can make a sharp turn out of the circle. Better loose some 20m
than your wing.

Another near miss happened at our airfield in the landing pattern, when an
inexperienced pilot came heading straight against another one who was on
correct course. They did not have Flarm and could avoid a crash in the last
second.

What does it help when there are only 10 gliders in a 1000km radius, but one
that flies directly into your cockpit? Collisions happen where there are
reasons to be at the same place, like traffic patterns and thermals.

Happy landings

In the UK, most glider collisions take place in or close to the
pattern/circuit at gliding sites. Most are with other gliders or tugs
from the same site. A few are with unrelated powered aircraft. (Little
sky, lot of bullets.)

Hardly any are while on cross country flights away from the home site.
(Big sky, few bullets.)

Before we had Flarm, we had 20 fatalities in 23 years, mostly of
glider pilots. We now have over 25 percent of UK glider with Flarm,
and most of those are in the quarter of the England (southern eastern
sector) where most gliding is done.

Is it a coincidence that fatal collisions have not featured as
prominently in the UK accident figures (none since 2009, and that was
a non-Flarm glider colliding with a non-Flarm powered aircraft – both
pilots in the latter were killed) since Flarm grew from a few to over
25 percent uptake? And the most recent (non-fatal) collision of which
I know, in 2011, had no Flarm help in avoiding it? I think it is too
soon for it to be statistically significant, but to me it looks
hopeful.

As for those who say another instrument in the cockpit is too much and
keeps your head down even more, sorry but that is rubbish. Virtually
everyone who flies with it has realized we were not looking out well
enough before, and the bleeps make you look harder. If it goes into
alarm mode – collision imminent if you don’t do something – you are
very glad indeed to have the warning. Been there, done it,

Ditto PCAS.

But, sadly, the unbelievers will remain unconvinced. Those of us old
enough to remember the car seat belt saga will recall those who
opposed them saying they would rather have the chance of being thrown
clear than be strapped in. (Ever hear of many people being so thrown
clear of an otherwise fatal car crash?)

As for those who have no room, yes that can happen. A pity. But the
small Swiss Flarm can go elsewhere in the cockpit than on the panel.

Transponders? For Minden etc., great. But transponders do not detect
each other. Two air cadet aircraft collided in the UK in 2009, killing
both instructors and both cadets - 4 dead. Both aircraft had
transponders. Unless you also have PCAS or better, or have radar
service, they are useless at glider/glider, glider/power, or even
power/power collision avoidance. (Very few UK gliders have
transponders, and most including mine are inhibited by regulations
requiring expensive and/or impractical official modifications and
certification issues, as well as cost etc.. I can’t have one in my
glider, and I had a hole in the instrument panel ready for it.)

My advice to people in thr UK is to get Flarm, and when you do so, get
as many of your buddies at the same gliding site to get them too. You
are all each other’s greatest collision risk, near your own base. In
the USA? Well, where have your glider/glider collisions mostly been?

Chris N.

By the way, if anyone wants a copy of a paper I did on Lookout, Flarm,
PCAS etc., send me an email to which I can reply with an attachment. I
am not an expert, but it was the best I could pull together, with some
help from others including data from people on r.a.s.

Chris N