hi alt oxygen

Guy wrote in (small) part:
The highest paved road in California goes
over Tioga Pass (9,941 ft.) in Yosemite... The lower parking lot in
Bristlecone Forest is over 10 grand. I think there is an upper lot at about 12
-- which had my old Porsche 912 gasping. One of the treees there is arguably
the oldest living thing on our planet. Stunningly gorgeous drive. Do it!
The UC Berkeley research station on the top of White Mountain is about 14,250
feet up. Pretty sure road is paved, although not available to the public.
Bring your snow tractor in winter.

If you are unaccustomed to altitude and plan on such a trip, get a small squirt
bottle of "4-Way Nasal Spray." When you wake up in the middle of the night at
8K, gasping for air, stick in nose, squirt-squirt, and go back to sleep
breathing easily. Amazing.


Quent

QDurham wrote:

Guy wrote in (small) part:
The highest paved road in California goes
over Tioga Pass (9,941 ft.) in Yosemite... The lower parking lot in
Bristlecone Forest is over 10 grand.

Yup, you're right, I couldn't remember if the pavement went all the way to Schulman
Grove (10,100 feet). At least when I first drove it 20-some years ago, IIRR the
pavement ran out somewhat lower, somewhere between Sierra Viewpoint @ 9,280 ft. and
Schulman. But unlike Hwy 120 over Tioga Pass, given the winding nature of the road
above Grandview Campground @ 8,500 feet, speed and passing ability really isn't an
issue there.

I think there is an upper lot at about 12
-- which had my old Porsche 912 gasping. One of the treees there is arguably
the oldest living thing on our planet.

Unless they've found an older one, Methuselah is at Schulman Grove, not the higher
Patriarch Grove (11,200 ft.)

Stunningly gorgeous drive. Do it!

Have. Also backpacked/skiied it ;-)


The UC Berkeley research station on the top of White Mountain is about 14,250
feet up. Pretty sure road is paved, although not available to the public.
Bring your snow tractor in winter.

It certainly wasn't paved the last time I was up there, around 1991 or 92.
Pavement runs out at Schulman, and it's graded dirt/gravel from there on to the Mt.
Barcroft Research Station @ 12,400 ft. (rather than the 13,200 I wrote in my
previous post. Mt. Barcroft itself is 13,040 -- I checked the topo to refresh my
memory), degrading to a jeep trail from there to the top. There's a gate 2 miles
short of Barcroft at around 11,700 or so, which is normally locked, motor vehicle
travel beyond it being for official use only, so private parties have to park at
the gate and hike/bike if they wish to go further. On that particular trip we were
able to drive right up to Barcroft because we were part of a class, and were
staying at the station that night. Oh, living rough, satellite TV, table tennis
and billiards! It seems to be a fairly popular mountain bike ride from the gate to
the top, being (IIRR) between 13-15 miles round trip, and I've also day-hiked to
the top and back from there in a fairly easy day (provided you've acclimatized and
are in good hiking shape).

Guy

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
WaltBJ wrote:

More trivia on flight and oxygen:

snip

As for the Rocky Mountains, when we get flatlanders up here for a
visit and take them for a drive up over Trail Ridge road - peak
altitude about 12,200, they usually doze off because they won't
breathe (pant) enough.

(Almost totally OT) Ah, Trail Ridge road. When my '88 Subaru GL Turbo 4WD
Wagon was almost brand new, I took four people and all our gear for a week
over Trail Ridge (we'd driven from California, but spent a night and half
day in Great Basin Nat. Park, including sleeping at 10,000 feet). The
Subaru only had 115 hp and had a curb weight of about 3,000 lb., and
virtually everyone had a better power/weight ratio and was faster than I
was -- at sea level. So there we were, climbing up the west side on a
hot, muggy summer day (it was in the high '80s or low '90s, I forget
which, when we passed through Granby @ 8,500 feet), and all of a sudden I
found I was just about the most powerful car on the road, as I passed what
were far more powerful cars (at sea level) while driving uphill at ca.
10,000 ft. I could drive as fast as I wanted to (max. 40-50 or so) uphill
on the fairly open two-lane road, with 1-2,000 foot dropoffs on the side
and usually no guardrails on the turns. Coming back over from east to west
was the same.

Hmm, I was across Trail Ridge Road a couple of times last summer (same
trip) but never really noticed a loss of power there or down at Pike's Peak.
Just must not have been putting my foot in it hard enough to notice. That
and mass-air-flow sensors driving the fuel injection helps.

of a load that high, that hot. The highest paved road in California goes
over Tioga Pass (9,941 ft.) in Yosemite, and it handled that fine with two

Nice developed campground up there, Tuolumne Meadows, only 8600'
but sub freezing temperatures of a night about anytime of the year. Good
tent sleeping.
Seems like the airliners come through that gap pretty low of a night.
Oh, watch the speed up there, the only place I've ever seen a National
Park Service radar speed trap, at 0-dark:30 no less.


Just to make some attempt to getting this on topic I'll mention that the
Navy has a mobile home or two parked at the top of Pike's Peak doing
some kind of aeronautical research.

John Keeney wrote:

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
WaltBJ wrote:

More trivia on flight and oxygen:

snip

As for the Rocky Mountains, when we get flatlanders up here for a
visit and take them for a drive up over Trail Ridge road - peak
altitude about 12,200, they usually doze off because they won't
breathe (pant) enough.

(Almost totally OT) Ah, Trail Ridge road. When my '88 Subaru GL Turbo 4WD
Wagon was almost brand new, I took four people and all our gear for a week
over Trail Ridge (we'd driven from California, but spent a night and half
day in Great Basin Nat. Park, including sleeping at 10,000 feet). The
Subaru only had 115 hp and had a curb weight of about 3,000 lb., and
virtually everyone had a better power/weight ratio and was faster than I
was -- at sea level. So there we were, climbing up the west side on a
hot, muggy summer day (it was in the high '80s or low '90s, I forget
which, when we passed through Granby @ 8,500 feet), and all of a sudden I
found I was just about the most powerful car on the road, as I passed what
were far more powerful cars (at sea level) while driving uphill at ca.
10,000 ft. I could drive as fast as I wanted to (max. 40-50 or so) uphill
on the fairly open two-lane road, with 1-2,000 foot dropoffs on the side
and usually no guardrails on the turns. Coming back over from east to west
was the same.

Hmm, I was across Trail Ridge Road a couple of times last summer (same
trip) but never really noticed a loss of power there or down at Pike's Peak.
Just must not have been putting my foot in it hard enough to notice. That
and mass-air-flow sensors driving the fuel injection helps.

Modern computerized engine controls undoubtedly help, compared to older cars
tuned for sea level. but how much of a load were you hauling, and in what?

of a load that high, that hot. The highest paved road in California goes
over Tioga Pass (9,941 ft.) in Yosemite, and it handled that fine with two

Nice developed campground up there, Tuolumne Meadows, only 8600'
but sub freezing temperatures of a night about anytime of the year. Good
tent sleeping.

It's even better sleeping on one of the domes like Pothole or Lembert, with the
sky as your roof. It's warmer and you've got a better view. Of course I would
never do such a thing (koff), as it's illegal. But I do spend a fair amount of
mountain time in/around Tuolomne.

Seems like the airliners come through that gap pretty low of a night.
Oh, watch the speed up there, the only place I've ever seen a National
Park Service radar speed trap, at 0-dark:30 no less.

Shockin' , jus' shockin' ;-). It's a great road to drive fast in the middle of
the night when the motorhomes and other tourists are all tucked up in bed,
coming up from Crane Flat on the west, but I do take it easy through the meadow
itself.

Just to make some attempt to getting this on topic I'll mention that the
Navy has a mobile home or two parked at the top of Pike's Peak doing
some kind of aeronautical research.

Likewise, I'll mention that there's a tanker track almost directly above the
White Mountains. I got to watch a Buff refueling from a KC-135 last time I was
up there, while taking breaks from reading "Desert Solitaire."

Guy

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
John Keeney wrote:

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
WaltBJ wrote:

More trivia on flight and oxygen:

snip

As for the Rocky Mountains, when we get flatlanders up here for a
visit and take them for a drive up over Trail Ridge road - peak
altitude about 12,200, they usually doze off because they won't
breathe (pant) enough.

(Almost totally OT) Ah, Trail Ridge road. When my '88 Subaru GL Turbo
4WD
Wagon was almost brand new, I took four people and all our gear for a
week
over Trail Ridge (we'd driven from California, but spent a night and
half
day in Great Basin Nat. Park, including sleeping at 10,000 feet). The
Subaru only had 115 hp and had a curb weight of about 3,000 lb., and
virtually everyone had a better power/weight ratio and was faster than
I
was -- at sea level. So there we were, climbing up the west side on a
hot, muggy summer day (it was in the high '80s or low '90s, I forget
which, when we passed through Granby @ 8,500 feet), and all of a
sudden I
found I was just about the most powerful car on the road, as I passed
what
were far more powerful cars (at sea level) while driving uphill at ca.
10,000 ft. I could drive as fast as I wanted to (max. 40-50 or so)
uphill
on the fairly open two-lane road, with 1-2,000 foot dropoffs on the
side
and usually no guardrails on the turns. Coming back over from east to
west
was the same.

Hmm, I was across Trail Ridge Road a couple of times last summer (same
trip) but never really noticed a loss of power there or down at Pike's
Peak.
Just must not have been putting my foot in it hard enough to notice.
That
and mass-air-flow sensors driving the fuel injection helps.

Modern computerized engine controls undoubtedly help, compared to older
cars
tuned for sea level. but how much of a load were you hauling, and in
what?

Not really hauling that much, I'ld be hard pressed to say what at the
moment.
The car was/is a '92 Buick Century four door with the 3.3L engine. The best
I recall the car stayed in high gear.
It's been considerable longer since I've been there (late 80's?), but seems
to
me the road coming into Yosemite from the east side was quite a bit steeper.

of a load that high, that hot. The highest paved road in California
goes
over Tioga Pass (9,941 ft.) in Yosemite, and it handled that fine with
two

Nice developed campground up there, Tuolumne Meadows, only 8600'
but sub freezing temperatures of a night about anytime of the year. Good
tent sleeping.

It's even better sleeping on one of the domes like Pothole or Lembert,
with the
sky as your roof. It's warmer and you've got a better view. Of course I
would

I like the cold nights when I'm camping. Best night's sleep I've ever had
was in a tent at Tuolumne Meadows with a low of 28 degrees. Cooked
supper on the fire then spent the night up until about midnight in the
meadow watching the stars and planes. Back to the tent in the trees, sheet,
pillow, sleeping bag, socks and underwear, a wonderful night.

never do such a thing (koff), as it's illegal. But I do spend a fair
amount of
mountain time in/around Tuolomne.

I've got to admit, they make it illegal I'll most likely not do it. I'll
cuss
the idiots that put them in charge by hiring them or electing them but
they got there by the rules of the game and get to make the other rules.

Seems like the airliners come through that gap pretty low of a night.
Oh, watch the speed up there, the only place I've ever seen a National
Park Service radar speed trap, at 0-dark:30 no less.

Shockin' , jus' shockin' ;-). It's a great road to drive fast in the
middle of
the night when the motorhomes and other tourists are all tucked up in bed,
coming up from Crane Flat on the west, but I do take it easy through the
meadow
itself.

Just to make some attempt to getting this on topic I'll mention that the
Navy has a mobile home or two parked at the top of Pike's Peak doing
some kind of aeronautical research.

Likewise, I'll mention that there's a tanker track almost directly above
the
White Mountains. I got to watch a Buff refueling from a KC-135 last time
I was
up there, while taking breaks from reading "Desert Solitaire."

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:57:39 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

WaltBJ wrote:

More trivia on flight and oxygen:

snip

As for the Rocky Mountains, when we get flatlanders up here for a
visit and take them for a drive up over Trail Ridge road - peak
altitude about 12,200, they usually doze off because they won't
breathe (pant) enough.

(Almost totally OT) Ah, Trail Ridge road. When my '88 Subaru GL Turbo 4WD
Wagon was almost brand new, I took four people and all our gear for a week
over Trail Ridge (we'd driven from California, but spent a night and half
day in Great Basin Nat. Park, including sleeping at 10,000 feet). The
Subaru only had 115 hp and had a curb weight of about 3,000 lb., and
virtually everyone had a better power/weight ratio and was faster than I
was -- at sea level. So there we were, climbing up the west side on a
hot, muggy summer day (it was in the high '80s or low '90s, I forget
which, when we passed through Granby @ 8,500 feet), and all of a sudden I
found I was just about the most powerful car on the road, as I passed what
were far more powerful cars (at sea level) while driving uphill at ca.
10,000 ft. I could drive as fast as I wanted to (max. 40-50 or so) uphill
on the fairly open two-lane road, with 1-2,000 foot dropoffs on the side
and usually no guardrails on the turns. Coming back over from east to west
was the same.

I never did find out what the critical altitude on the turbo was, but
judging by its performance on Trail Ridge that day it must have been well
over 14,000 feet (allowing for density altitude). Couldn't have a more
clear illustration of a turbo's thin air performance advantage than that.
I later took the car up to 13,200 feet in the White Mountains one
September with two people and gear, and I don't remember any altitude
problems there either, at least for the car (it was graded gravel and
dirt, so I wasn't driving very fast in any case). Both of _us_ had AMS
from ascending too fast from sea level, even though we'd slept at 9,000
feet the night before.

My Subaru Forester (some SOB stole my old Subie in its fifteenth year, or
I'd still be happily driving it) doesn't have a turbo (they only came out
with the XT turbo model in June or so of last year, and I had to buy a car
that January). It's got about 165 hp and more torque, so my old turbo
would come up short up to about 8,000 feet or so, but have more power
above that. Living in the SF Bay Area at sea level and driving up to the
Sierra it hasn't been a problem so far, but I have yet to carry that much
of a load that high, that hot. The highest paved road in California goes
over Tioga Pass (9,941 ft.) in Yosemite, and it handled that fine with two
people and backpacking gear last August, so I probably don't need a turbo
here, and I'm happy not to have to worry about the turbo blowing up or
suffering other expensive problems (not that I had any, but I changed my
oil every 3,000 miles and let it idle down properly after hard driving).
But if I was living in Colorado up against the Front Range and/or
commuting across it, I'd sure want one. I've read that Subaru developed
the Turbo Forester XT precisely because the normally-aspirated model was
left gasping for breath commuting through the Eisenhower tunnel (@11,000
feet). As Homer Simpson might say, "210 hp all the way up, M'mm."

Guy


I wonder what my Isuzu Bighorn (Trooper to you 'Mericans) 2.8 diesel
turbo would be like there But for those that live high... aren't
there any factory supercharged cars to use? Like the Australian 3.8l
V6 SS Commodore? The Merlin and Griffin engines on the Spitfires were
supercharged, and they certainly went high enough

rnf2 wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:57:39 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

WaltBJ wrote:

More trivia on flight and oxygen:

snip

As for the Rocky Mountains, when we get flatlanders up here for a
visit and take them for a drive up over Trail Ridge road - peak
altitude about 12,200, they usually doze off because they won't
breathe (pant) enough.

(Almost totally OT) Ah, Trail Ridge road. When my '88 Subaru GL
Turbo 4WD Wagon was almost brand new, I took four people and all our
gear for a week over Trail Ridge (we'd driven from California, but
spent a night and half day in Great Basin Nat. Park, including
sleeping at 10,000 feet). The Subaru only had 115 hp and had a curb
weight of about 3,000 lb., and virtually everyone had a better
power/weight ratio and was faster than I was -- at sea level. So
there we were, climbing up the west side on a hot, muggy summer day
(it was in the high '80s or low '90s, I forget which, when we passed
through Granby @ 8,500 feet), and all of a sudden I found I was just
about the most powerful car on the road, as I passed what were far
more powerful cars (at sea level) while driving uphill at ca. 10,000
ft. I could drive as fast as I wanted to (max. 40-50 or so) uphill
on the fairly open two-lane road, with 1-2,000 foot dropoffs on the
side and usually no guardrails on the turns. Coming back over from
east to west was the same.

I never did find out what the critical altitude on the turbo was, but
judging by its performance on Trail Ridge that day it must have been
well over 14,000 feet (allowing for density altitude). Couldn't
have a more clear illustration of a turbo's thin air performance
advantage than that. I later took the car up to 13,200 feet in the
White Mountains one September with two people and gear, and I don't
remember any altitude problems there either, at least for the car
(it was graded gravel and dirt, so I wasn't driving very fast in any
case). Both of _us_ had AMS from ascending too fast from sea level,
even though we'd slept at 9,000 feet the night before.

My Subaru Forester (some SOB stole my old Subie in its fifteenth
year, or I'd still be happily driving it) doesn't have a turbo (they
only came out with the XT turbo model in June or so of last year,
and I had to buy a car that January). It's got about 165 hp and
more torque, so my old turbo would come up short up to about 8,000
feet or so, but have more power above that. Living in the SF Bay
Area at sea level and driving up to the Sierra it hasn't been a
problem so far, but I have yet to carry that much of a load that
high, that hot. The highest paved road in California goes over
Tioga Pass (9,941 ft.) in Yosemite, and it handled that fine with
two people and backpacking gear last August, so I probably don't
need a turbo here, and I'm happy not to have to worry about the
turbo blowing up or suffering other expensive problems (not that I
had any, but I changed my oil every 3,000 miles and let it idle down
properly after hard driving). But if I was living in Colorado up
against the Front Range and/or commuting across it, I'd sure want
one. I've read that Subaru developed the Turbo Forester XT
precisely because the normally-aspirated model was left gasping for
breath commuting through the Eisenhower tunnel (@11,000 feet). As
Homer Simpson might say, "210 hp all the way up, M'mm."

Guy


I wonder what my Isuzu Bighorn (Trooper to you 'Mericans) 2.8 diesel
turbo would be like there But for those that live high... aren't
there any factory supercharged cars to use? Like the Australian 3.8l
V6 SS Commodore? The Merlin and Griffin engines on the Spitfires were
supercharged, and they certainly went high enough

Could always buy a Jaguar, they certainly do a supercharged version.

--
James...
www.jameshart.co.uk

"James Hart" wrote in message
...
Could always buy a Jaguar, they certainly do a supercharged version.

--
James...

Chrysler PT Cruiser Turbo.

Tex