If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
MH370: Malaysia releases satellite analysis
On 26/03/2014 23:51, Daryl wrote:
On 3/26/2014 4:19 PM, Keith Willshaw wrote: On 26/03/2014 20:23, Daryl wrote: On 3/26/2014 1:15 PM, george152 wrote: On 27/03/14 07:21, Keith Willshaw wrote: Especially given that the average depth of water in that area is around 4 km. Finding it will require a towed array. Keith First find the debris field. Then work your way back to begin scanning the ocean floor. It'll take time and surface ships. Nukes have other duties than looking for downed aircraft The debris will have floated for about 100 miles riding the currents. No help from that. As it happens you do get some help from that. The winds and currents can be used to estimate the position of the crash. That technique was used to find the remains of Air France 447. They combed the likely area using a towed sidescan sonor until they found the submerged debris field. Keith How deep was the area that 447 went down in. More than 4,000 metres, it was the South Atlantic This one went down in one of the deepest oceans. You pretty well have t be right on top of it to pick up anything. And it has to be done fast before the battery runs down on the black box. Once the battery is gone, it will never be located unless some Scifi things creap up. Now I know that the Seaview could probably find it. They found AF-447 in similar water depths AFTER the battery had run out. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26680633 However it will certainly be harder than for AF-447 if for no other reason than the location being so remote and if the debris is in a topologically complex area such as a ravine they may never find it. Keith |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
MH370: Malaysia releases satellite analysis
On 3/27/2014 3:32 AM, Keith Willshaw wrote:
On 26/03/2014 23:51, Daryl wrote: On 3/26/2014 4:19 PM, Keith Willshaw wrote: On 26/03/2014 20:23, Daryl wrote: On 3/26/2014 1:15 PM, george152 wrote: On 27/03/14 07:21, Keith Willshaw wrote: Especially given that the average depth of water in that area is around 4 km. Finding it will require a towed array. Keith First find the debris field. Then work your way back to begin scanning the ocean floor. It'll take time and surface ships. Nukes have other duties than looking for downed aircraft The debris will have floated for about 100 miles riding the currents. No help from that. As it happens you do get some help from that. The winds and currents can be used to estimate the position of the crash. That technique was used to find the remains of Air France 447. They combed the likely area using a towed sidescan sonor until they found the submerged debris field. Keith How deep was the area that 447 went down in. More than 4,000 metres, it was the South Atlantic This one went down in one of the deepest oceans. You pretty well have t be right on top of it to pick up anything. And it has to be done fast before the battery runs down on the black box. Once the battery is gone, it will never be located unless some Scifi things creap up. Now I know that the Seaview could probably find it. They found AF-447 in similar water depths AFTER the battery had run out. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26680633 However it will certainly be harder than for AF-447 if for no other reason than the location being so remote and if the debris is in a topologically complex area such as a ravine they may never find it. Keith AF-447 is a red herring. For the most recent, the depth in KMs in that area is over 7000 or 23,000 feet or almost 5000 feet. That's average depth. As you stated, add in the mountainous nature it gets even more difficult. Now, add in that pieces falling off on the way down will go through many different thermals and water direction and using those pieces that float will be worthless since it may have gone through many directional water streams on it's way to the surface. Yes, it's not impossible that they can find it. But it's highly improbable when cost is considered. How many millions of dollars will be spent each day until it becomes no longer financially viable. I think they are going to hit that limit in the next few days. -- Visit http://droopyvids.com for free TV and Movies. One of the Largest Collections of Public Domain and Classic TV on the Internet. |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
MH370: Malaysia releases satellite analysis
"Daryl" wrote in message ... On 3/27/2014 3:32 AM, Keith Willshaw wrote: On 26/03/2014 23:51, Daryl wrote: On 3/26/2014 4:19 PM, Keith Willshaw wrote: On 26/03/2014 20:23, Daryl wrote: On 3/26/2014 1:15 PM, george152 wrote: On 27/03/14 07:21, Keith Willshaw wrote: Especially given that the average depth of water in that area is around 4 km. Finding it will require a towed array. Keith First find the debris field. Then work your way back to begin scanning the ocean floor. It'll take time and surface ships. Nukes have other duties than looking for downed aircraft The debris will have floated for about 100 miles riding the currents. No help from that. As it happens you do get some help from that. The winds and currents can be used to estimate the position of the crash. That technique was used to find the remains of Air France 447. They combed the likely area using a towed sidescan sonor until they found the submerged debris field. Keith How deep was the area that 447 went down in. More than 4,000 metres, it was the South Atlantic This one went down in one of the deepest oceans. You pretty well have t be right on top of it to pick up anything. And it has to be done fast before the battery runs down on the black box. Once the battery is gone, it will never be located unless some Scifi things creap up. Now I know that the Seaview could probably find it. They found AF-447 in similar water depths AFTER the battery had run out. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26680633 However it will certainly be harder than for AF-447 if for no other reason than the location being so remote and if the debris is in a topologically complex area such as a ravine they may never find it. Keith AF-447 is a red herring. For the most recent, the depth in KMs in that area is over 7000 or 23,000 feet or almost 5000 feet. That's average depth. As you stated, add in the mountainous nature it gets even more difficult. Now, add in that pieces falling off on the way down will go through many different thermals and water direction and using those pieces that float will be worthless since it may have gone through many directional water streams on it's way to the surface. Yes, it's not impossible that they can find it. But it's highly improbable when cost is considered. How many millions of dollars will be spent each day until it becomes no longer financially viable. I think they are going to hit that limit in the next few days. If the ships and planes have been paid for, does it -really- cost that much extra to have them performing this task instead of another? jsw |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
MH370: Malaysia releases satellite analysis
On 3/27/2014 4:04 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Daryl" wrote in message ... On 3/27/2014 3:32 AM, Keith Willshaw wrote: On 26/03/2014 23:51, Daryl wrote: On 3/26/2014 4:19 PM, Keith Willshaw wrote: On 26/03/2014 20:23, Daryl wrote: On 3/26/2014 1:15 PM, george152 wrote: On 27/03/14 07:21, Keith Willshaw wrote: Especially given that the average depth of water in that area is around 4 km. Finding it will require a towed array. Keith First find the debris field. Then work your way back to begin scanning the ocean floor. It'll take time and surface ships. Nukes have other duties than looking for downed aircraft The debris will have floated for about 100 miles riding the currents. No help from that. As it happens you do get some help from that. The winds and currents can be used to estimate the position of the crash. That technique was used to find the remains of Air France 447. They combed the likely area using a towed sidescan sonor until they found the submerged debris field. Keith How deep was the area that 447 went down in. More than 4,000 metres, it was the South Atlantic This one went down in one of the deepest oceans. You pretty well have t be right on top of it to pick up anything. And it has to be done fast before the battery runs down on the black box. Once the battery is gone, it will never be located unless some Scifi things creap up. Now I know that the Seaview could probably find it. They found AF-447 in similar water depths AFTER the battery had run out. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26680633 However it will certainly be harder than for AF-447 if for no other reason than the location being so remote and if the debris is in a topologically complex area such as a ravine they may never find it. Keith AF-447 is a red herring. For the most recent, the depth in KMs in that area is over 7000 or 23,000 feet or almost 5000 feet. That's average depth. As you stated, add in the mountainous nature it gets even more difficult. Now, add in that pieces falling off on the way down will go through many different thermals and water direction and using those pieces that float will be worthless since it may have gone through many directional water streams on it's way to the surface. Yes, it's not impossible that they can find it. But it's highly improbable when cost is considered. How many millions of dollars will be spent each day until it becomes no longer financially viable. I think they are going to hit that limit in the next few days. If the ships and planes have been paid for, does it -really- cost that much extra to have them performing this task instead of another? jsw Yes, it does and the cost of fuels, personnel and wear and tear comes into play. Also, it takes them away from their other missions. -- Visit http://droopyvids.com for free TV and Movies. One of the Largest Collections of Public Domain and Classic TV on the Internet. |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
MH370: Malaysia releases satellite analysis
On 27/03/2014 21:12, Daryl wrote:
On 3/27/2014 3:32 AM, Keith Willshaw wrote: On 26/03/2014 23:51, Daryl wrote: On 3/26/2014 4:19 PM, Keith Willshaw wrote: On 26/03/2014 20:23, Daryl wrote: On 3/26/2014 1:15 PM, george152 wrote: On 27/03/14 07:21, Keith Willshaw wrote: Especially given that the average depth of water in that area is around 4 km. Finding it will require a towed array. Keith First find the debris field. Then work your way back to begin scanning the ocean floor. It'll take time and surface ships. Nukes have other duties than looking for downed aircraft The debris will have floated for about 100 miles riding the currents. No help from that. As it happens you do get some help from that. The winds and currents can be used to estimate the position of the crash. That technique was used to find the remains of Air France 447. They combed the likely area using a towed sidescan sonor until they found the submerged debris field. Keith How deep was the area that 447 went down in. More than 4,000 metres, it was the South Atlantic This one went down in one of the deepest oceans. You pretty well have t be right on top of it to pick up anything. And it has to be done fast before the battery runs down on the black box. Once the battery is gone, it will never be located unless some Scifi things creap up. Now I know that the Seaview could probably find it. They found AF-447 in similar water depths AFTER the battery had run out. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26680633 However it will certainly be harder than for AF-447 if for no other reason than the location being so remote and if the debris is in a topologically complex area such as a ravine they may never find it. Keith AF-447 is a red herring. For the most recent, the depth in KMs in that area is over 7000 or 23,000 feet or almost 5000 feet. This makes no sense at all. The deepest point in the Indian Ocean is 8047 m or around 25,000 ft the average depth is around 3890 metres or 13,000 ft which as it happens is approx the depth of water that AF-447 lay in. That's average depth. As you stated, add in the mountainous nature it gets even more difficult. Now, add in that pieces falling off on the way down will go through many different thermals and water direction and using those pieces that float will be worthless since it may have gone through many directional water streams on it's way to the surface. Yes, it's not impossible that they can find it. But it's highly improbable when cost is considered. How many millions of dollars will be spent each day until it becomes no longer financially viable. I think they are going to hit that limit in the next few days. Given that there is intense interest in China , Malaysia and amongst operators of the 777 I doubt people are going to lose interest that quickly. The search for AF-447 started in June 2009 and the wreckage was finally found in April 2011. Its probable that the first phase will end in the next few weeks if for no other reason that winter in the southern ocean is fast approaching. However I would expect a similar phase II search involving oceanographic reserach vessels to commence in the pring or summer. Keith |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
MH370: Malaysia releases satellite analysis
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
... Given that there is intense interest in China , Malaysia and amongst operators of the 777 I doubt people are going to lose interest that quickly. The search for AF-447 started in June 2009 and the wreckage was finally found in April 2011. Its probable that the first phase will end in the next few weeks if for no other reason that winter in the southern ocean is fast approaching. However I would expect a similar phase II search involving oceanographic reserach vessels to commence in the pring or summer. Keith This is the free-swimming robot submarine that found AF 447 in the the Mid-Atlantic Ridge: http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=38144 http://boingboing.net/2011/05/06/air...447-how-s.html "On April 3, researchers spotted the plane's debris field, 13,000 feet down, smack in the middle of a massive underwater mountain range." jsw |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
MH370: Malaysia releases satellite analysis
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
... "Keith Willshaw" wrote in message This is the free-swimming robot submarine that found AF 447 in the the Mid-Atlantic Ridge: http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=38144 http://boingboing.net/2011/05/06/air...447-how-s.html "On April 3, researchers spotted the plane's debris field, 13,000 feet down, smack in the middle of a massive underwater mountain range." jsw To give you an idea of the state of the art, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_glider "In November 2012, a Liquid Robotics Wave Glider autonomous underwater glider set a Guinness World Record for "longest distance traveled on the Earth's surface by a robot" by travelling over 14,000 kilometres (9,000 mi) on an autonomous journey of just over one year duration." "In August 2010, a Deep Glider variant of the Seaglider achieved a repeated 6000-meter operating depth." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberda...rwater_gliders "... and remain on station for up to six months." jsw |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
MH370: Malaysia releases satellite analysis
On 28/03/14 23:02, Keith Willshaw wrote:
Given that there is intense interest in China , Malaysia and amongst operators of the 777 I doubt people are going to lose interest that quickly. The search for AF-447 started in June 2009 and the wreckage was finally found in April 2011. Its probable that the first phase will end in the next few weeks if for no other reason that winter in the southern ocean is fast approaching. However I would expect a similar phase II search involving oceanographic reserach vessels to commence in the pring or summer. I see according to some new data that the aircraft was burning fuel at a higher rate so they've knocked 1000 km off the distance travelled |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Underwater, pt 5 - Malaysia 03.jpg (1/1) | Mitchell Holman[_3_] | Aviation Photos | 0 | August 31st 09 02:03 PM |
Underwater, pt 5 - Malaysia 02.jpg (1/1) | Mitchell Holman[_3_] | Aviation Photos | 0 | August 31st 09 02:03 PM |
Underwater, pt 5 - Malaysia 01.jpg (1/1) | Mitchell Holman[_3_] | Aviation Photos | 0 | August 31st 09 02:03 PM |
helicopters Malaysia 5 - sibuhelo5.jpg (1/1) | urbanwriter | Aviation Photos | 0 | November 10th 06 05:21 AM |