US Air Force survival gun?

Kevin Brooks wrote:

I was going to fish, I once kicked one out of the brush and watched him
scurry away--it was so comical I had to laugh outloud. He was running as
hard as he could while repeatedly looking back at me with this obviously
terrified look about him, trying to see if I was going to chase him. Danged
thing took off up the side of the ridge (a pretty steep one) and I swear he
was accelerating the whole time. Made me realize if I ever did encounter one
who was testy that outrunning him is *not* an option.

Well thanks for the update. Need to look into this more.

We've had several local "lectures" from state wildlife
biologists about the bears (which have become very frequent
visitors to most Northampton neighborhoods; they hit the
bird feeders and trash cans). They always emphasize the lack
of aggressiveness of the black bear (as opposed to the grizzly).

I think much of it has to do with the political thinking of
this area. Hunters are very bad (their trucks commonly have
sugar poured into gas tanks during deer season), as of course
guns (did you know a gun is "an instrument of violence"?).

There is the promotion of the idea that animals are our friends
and only humans are the real aggressive creatures. I think the
"gentle Bambi" side of wildlife is emphasized at the expense of
reality.

Needless to say, I have not been too concerned encountering
bears in the woods, but am quite convinced there is going to
be "an incident" in town some day as someone runs into a bear
who has become habituated to humans.

A couple years ago, I was visiting a friend at the edge of town
as a bear hit trash cans left out by an unthinking tenent. Myself,
with infuriated dog (on leash) and 6 other people stood and
watched this bear go through the trash cans not much more than
30 yards away. He totally ignored our presence, or the near
hysterical dog trying to commence a chase. *That* is potentially
a dangerous bear!

Guess it's time to walk a bit more softly (or perhaps more noisily)
over the trails now that I have some alternative info on the beast.


SMH

"Stephen Harding" wrote in message
...


snip


I think much of it has to do with the political thinking of
this area. Hunters are very bad (their trucks commonly have
sugar poured into gas tanks during deer season), as of course
guns (did you know a gun is "an instrument of violence"?).

Yeah, folks just don't seem to understand that predation is supposed to be a
natural process, and we have removed some of the predators from the chain;
unless hunters fill the void, you get population explosions in
not-so-comfortable places and attendant problems. ISTR Long Island, among
other northeastern communities, has been having a heck of a problem with
deer, but every time a regulated hunt or thinning program is proposed, the
PETA weenies come out of the woodwork. It would not be so bad if the
critters were *just* eating up folks ornamentals in their yards, but we are
experiencing fatalities; there have been at least two fatalities due to
hitting deer on the road in my local area over the past three or four years,
and about fifteen years ago I lost an uncle when an oncoming car hit a deer,
tossed it up into the air, and sent it through the windshield of the car he
was traveling in.


There is the promotion of the idea that animals are our friends
and only humans are the real aggressive creatures. I think the
"gentle Bambi" side of wildlife is emphasized at the expense of
reality.

Talk about Bambi...every year we have one or two accounts in the state of
*deer* attacking folks during the rutting season. Haven't heard of any
fatalities recently, but a couple of folks were pretty badly injured. Folks
always think "oh, how cute" and forget they are wild animals and can tear
you up pretty good.


Needless to say, I have not been too concerned encountering
bears in the woods, but am quite convinced there is going to
be "an incident" in town some day as someone runs into a bear
who has become habituated to humans.

Those are the ones to worry most about. I was always taught to stay away
from bears near any parks, and *all* sows and cubs. The first because of the
likelihood of them having lost their natural fear of us, the second because
they are extremely defensive of their young.


A couple years ago, I was visiting a friend at the edge of town
as a bear hit trash cans left out by an unthinking tenent. Myself,
with infuriated dog (on leash) and 6 other people stood and
watched this bear go through the trash cans not much more than
30 yards away. He totally ignored our presence, or the near
hysterical dog trying to commence a chase. *That* is potentially
a dangerous bear!

Guess it's time to walk a bit more softly (or perhaps more noisily)
over the trails now that I have some alternative info on the beast.

Interestingly, when looking for the bear attack statistics I ran across a
reference to those "bear bells" that some folks wear when hiking. Seems some
researchers tied some to a bush and jingled them as grizzlies strolled by,
and got absolutely *no* response from the bears, other than curiousity
(which is not the reaction I would want to engender in any grizzly I might
meet when fishing in Montana or Wyoming). The noise thing may be another
"doesn't really work, or works counter to the desired result" item, like
that "play dead when dealing with a grizzly" bit.

Brooks



SMH

"Stephen Harding" wrote in message
...
I think much of it has to do with the political thinking of
this area. Hunters are very bad (their trucks commonly have
sugar poured into gas tanks during deer season), as of course
guns (did you know a gun is "an instrument of violence"?).

Of course they are, they're designed to kill with. Doesn't mean they're
*bad*, but a firearm is primarily designed to blow holes in targets, and
those targets may be cute fluffy living creatures just as easily as
cardboard cutouts or metallic silhouettes.

There is the promotion of the idea that animals are our friends
and only humans are the real aggressive creatures. I think the
"gentle Bambi" side of wildlife is emphasized at the expense of
reality.

Ouch. Without hunting or some other means of culling, Bambi is going to
breed like mad, eat the pristine wilderness into a barren waste, and then
starve en masse (of course all that will probably be the fault of hunters,
the government, large corporations and/or Saddam Hussein rather than the
sentimental well-meaning treehuggers).

Okay, over-hunting is also very bad, as the passenger pigeon would tell you,
but while Nature usually works out a balance it can be quite messy for a few
generations while the scales swing.

--
Paul J. Adam

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:42:31 -0400, Stephen Harding
wrote:

There is the promotion of the idea that animals are our friends
and only humans are the real aggressive creatures. I think the
"gentle Bambi" side of wildlife is emphasized at the expense of
reality.

Forget bears; I know someone whose cousin was killed by a mule deer.
Not in a collision between deer and car, but in a face-to-face
encounter. I suspect that more people are killed or injured in such
collisions with deer than are killed or injured by bears (black,
grizzly, and polar) every year.

The closest I've ever come to being attacked by a wild animal is being
nipped by a rock hyrax on Table Mountain, though. Hyraxes are the
closest living relatives of elephants, not that you'd guess that by
looking at either of them. Although now that I think about elephants,
there was that one bull elephant who seriously considered charging our
vehicle in Samburu (or was it Masai Mara?) a few years ago.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

Mary Shafer wrote:

The closest I've ever come to being attacked by a wild animal is being
nipped by a rock hyrax on Table Mountain, though. Hyraxes are the
closest living relatives of elephants, not that you'd guess that by
looking at either of them. Although now that I think about elephants,
there was that one bull elephant who seriously considered charging our
vehicle in Samburu (or was it Masai Mara?) a few years ago.

Hyraxes? Elephants? Phaah!

Ever been to Rocky Mountain Nat'l Park in Colorado?

That's the site of my only "wildlife attack". A vicious and highly
aggressive pack of ground squirrels! The little buggers would come
right up under the picnic table at the campsite, and nip at your
toes.

The message was for us to get out so they could move in on the chips
and fritos for themselves.

Such a terrifying experience, I have never returned!


SMH

In article ,
Stephen Harding writes:
Kevin Brooks wrote:

The ol' Black Bear actually accounts for many more attacks against humans in
the US than does the Grizzly, which makes sense being as they are more
widely distributed and have a larger population. I carried a 12 guage pump

Are you certain of that? I've read quite consistently that
the black bear is really very slow to attack a human, even
when it has cubs. Attacks are extremely rare.

I think the last I heard, a couple years ago a woman jogging
around somewhere in Quebec was killed by a black bear. It
was an exceptional event!

I guess I should find out more. We've got *plenty* of black
bears around here, and they're definitely done with their
winter naps.

Had my first encounter with one for this year just a few days
ago. It growled at my dog, made a short charge towards the
dog, and then took off. This would be my 5th encounter with
local black bears in about 3 years, and usually, they just
skeedadle as fast as possible when they see me. The critters
are *everywhere* around here now days!

I haven't heard any credible stories of Black Bear attacks either.
They're pretty willing to just go about their business and amble
along. I think that the Bears (and us) face more danger from the
Charging Buick than anything else.
That being said, wo do have a lot of bear up here, these days. (IIRC,
the census figures put the bear population in New England at the
highest level since about 1600.
Hmm. given the number of bear sighting out to Durham, it could well
be that bears are attracted to Academic environments. I know Skunks
are - there's an area of UNH that's just loaded with them. And teh
City-raised kids learn pretty quickly that they all respond quite well
to "Here, Kitty!"
As it happens, I'll be meeting with some of teh Wildlife Studies folks
at UNH this weekend. I'll see what they think.


--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

Peter Stickney wrote:

Hmm. given the number of bear sighting out to Durham, it could well
be that bears are attracted to Academic environments. I know Skunks
are - there's an area of UNH that's just loaded with them. And teh
City-raised kids learn pretty quickly that they all respond quite well
to "Here, Kitty!"
As it happens, I'll be meeting with some of teh Wildlife Studies folks
at UNH this weekend. I'll see what they think.

My brother works as a cop at Amherst College and he's always
getting wildlife complaints over there. Get the skunk out of
the dining common; a fox was seen wandering around the library;
moose in a parking lot!

However one parents weekend, with the college attempting to
look its best (this is generally a well-to-do population),
he got a report that a red tailed hawk plucked a squirrel right
off the lawn in front of students and parents, carrying it
struggling away, most likely to become baby hawk food.

The parents and students wanted the police to do something about
it!

Since Amherst and my own fair town of Northampton are official
"No Nuke" zones, and there haven't been any nuclear events, even
with Westover RAFB not too distant, perhaps a "No Predation" zone
would be useful.


SMH

In article ,
Stephen Harding wrote:
My brother works as a cop at Amherst College and he's always
getting wildlife complaints over there. Get the skunk out of
the dining common; a fox was seen wandering around the library;
moose in a parking lot!

However one parents weekend, with the college attempting to
look its best (this is generally a well-to-do population),
he got a report that a red tailed hawk plucked a squirrel right
off the lawn in front of students and parents, carrying it
struggling away, most likely to become baby hawk food.

The parents and students wanted the police to do something about
it!

Figures.

Since Amherst and my own fair town of Northampton are official
"No Nuke" zones, and there haven't been any nuclear events, even
with Westover RAFB not too distant, perhaps a "No Predation" zone
would be useful.

It should work just about as well.

"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Stephen Harding writes:
Kevin Brooks wrote:

The ol' Black Bear actually accounts for many more attacks against
humans in
the US than does the Grizzly, which makes sense being as they are more
widely distributed and have a larger population. I carried a 12 guage
pump

Are you certain of that? I've read quite consistently that
the black bear is really very slow to attack a human, even
when it has cubs. Attacks are extremely rare.

I think the last I heard, a couple years ago a woman jogging
around somewhere in Quebec was killed by a black bear. It
was an exceptional event!

I guess I should find out more. We've got *plenty* of black
bears around here, and they're definitely done with their
winter naps.

Had my first encounter with one for this year just a few days
ago. It growled at my dog, made a short charge towards the
dog, and then took off. This would be my 5th encounter with
local black bears in about 3 years, and usually, they just
skeedadle as fast as possible when they see me. The critters
are *everywhere* around here now days!

I haven't heard any credible stories of Black Bear attacks either.

Then you may want to reread what is available out there. A quick Google
should convince you that the black is no teddy bear; they have accounted for
a number of fatalities, and reportedly account for more attacks and
fatalities in BC than the also-present grizzlies.

They're pretty willing to just go about their business and amble
along. I think that the Bears (and us) face more danger from the
Charging Buick than anything else.
That being said, wo do have a lot of bear up here, these days. (IIRC,
the census figures put the bear population in New England at the
highest level since about 1600.
Hmm. given the number of bear sighting out to Durham, it could well
be that bears are attracted to Academic environments. I know Skunks
are - there's an area of UNH that's just loaded with them. And teh
City-raised kids learn pretty quickly that they all respond quite well
to "Here, Kitty!"
As it happens, I'll be meeting with some of teh Wildlife Studies folks
at UNH this weekend. I'll see what they think.

Ask them if any of them have read Shelton's book on the subject of black
bears and attacks.

Brooks



--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

In article ,
"Kevin Brooks" writes:

"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Stephen Harding writes:
Kevin Brooks wrote:

The ol' Black Bear actually accounts for many more attacks against
humans in
the US than does the Grizzly, which makes sense being as they are more
widely distributed and have a larger population. I carried a 12 guage
pump

Are you certain of that? I've read quite consistently that
the black bear is really very slow to attack a human, even
when it has cubs. Attacks are extremely rare.

I think the last I heard, a couple years ago a woman jogging
around somewhere in Quebec was killed by a black bear. It
was an exceptional event!

I guess I should find out more. We've got *plenty* of black
bears around here, and they're definitely done with their
winter naps.

Had my first encounter with one for this year just a few days
ago. It growled at my dog, made a short charge towards the
dog, and then took off. This would be my 5th encounter with
local black bears in about 3 years, and usually, they just
skeedadle as fast as possible when they see me. The critters
are *everywhere* around here now days!

I haven't heard any credible stories of Black Bear attacks either.

Then you may want to reread what is available out there. A quick Google
should convince you that the black is no teddy bear; they have accounted for
a number of fatalities, and reportedly account for more attacks and
fatalities in BC than the also-present grizzlies.

I'd be the last one to state that _any_ wild critter, be it a bear, of
any color, Coyote, Racoon, or even Field Mouse is a Cuddly Teddy Bear.
(Especially after sewing a friend's Coon Hound's ears back on after it
learned that Black Bears are Very Much Irritated by Coon Hounds
bouncing around them and bellowing. (It wasn't so much an attack as a
backhand cuff in the "Get Outta Here!" mode. It was still sufficient
to scalp the dog. (Didn't do any permanent damage though, 'cause it
hit him in hte head. The one thing you could be certain of was that
you couldn't induce detectable Brain Damage in Bounce the Coon Hound -
It's sort of like detectnig radiation from DU - sure, it's there, but
the background count is so high that you can't sort out just what the
cause is))
I don't doubt that there have been Black Bear attacks. We haven't had
any of any consequence in New Hampshire, of late. Given what I've
observed of bears in the woods. I'd be willing to wager that it's
more a question of the likelyhood of an encounter with a particular
species rather than a blanket statement that a Black Bear is as
agressive, or as prone to provocation, as a Grizzly.
I wouldn't dream of cornering either type - other than Humans, they're
at the toop of the food chain around here, and they didn't get there
by being slow, dull-witted vegetarians.


They're pretty willing to just go about their business and amble
along. I think that the Bears (and us) face more danger from the
Charging Buick than anything else.
That being said, wo do have a lot of bear up here, these days. (IIRC,
the census figures put the bear population in New England at the
highest level since about 1600.
Hmm. given the number of bear sighting out to Durham, it could well
be that bears are attracted to Academic environments. I know Skunks
are - there's an area of UNH that's just loaded with them. And teh
City-raised kids learn pretty quickly that they all respond quite well
to "Here, Kitty!"
As it happens, I'll be meeting with some of teh Wildlife Studies folks
at UNH this weekend. I'll see what they think.

Ask them if any of them have read Shelton's book on the subject of black
bears and attacks.

I wouldn't doubt that they have - in fact, some of them may have
contributed or reviewed it.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster