US Air Force survival gun?

"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...

I haven't heard any credible stories of Black Bear attacks either.
They're pretty willing to just go about their business and amble
along. I think that the Bears (and us) face more danger from the
Charging Buick than anything else.

I believe a back country camper was killed in the Rocky Mountain
National Park last summer just before I was out there. Drug out
of his tent at night.

"John Keeney" wrote in message
...

"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...

I haven't heard any credible stories of Black Bear attacks either.
They're pretty willing to just go about their business and amble
along. I think that the Bears (and us) face more danger from the
Charging Buick than anything else.

I believe a back country camper was killed in the Rocky Mountain
National Park last summer just before I was out there. Drug out
of his tent at night.

Actually, from what I have read the case in Colorado did not involve a
camper; instead, it was apparently a logger/timberman who had a backcountry
cabin, from which he was drug, killed, and partially consumed. There was
also a similar case in New Mexico, where the victim was a 90 year old woman,
again in her cabin. Black bears are not necessarilly cuddly creatures.

Brooks

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...

"John Keeney" wrote in message
...

"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...

I haven't heard any credible stories of Black Bear attacks either.
They're pretty willing to just go about their business and amble
along. I think that the Bears (and us) face more danger from the
Charging Buick than anything else.

I believe a back country camper was killed in the Rocky Mountain
National Park last summer just before I was out there. Drug out
of his tent at night.

Actually, from what I have read the case in Colorado did not involve a
camper; instead, it was apparently a logger/timberman who had a
backcountry
cabin, from which he was drug, killed, and partially consumed. There was
also a similar case in New Mexico, where the victim was a 90 year old
woman,
again in her cabin. Black bears are not necessarilly cuddly creatures.

OK, I just did a search for the story and it seems it wasn't a fatal attack.
Two people in separate tents were attacked but no fatalities.
I thought for a while there must have been another incident because
the area of the park they were attacked in didn't match the area I recalled
(Fern Lake Trail for the attack vs Wild Basin from memory), but it
seems the Wild Basin is where they finally killed the bear.

"Stephen Harding" wrote in message
...
Kevin Brooks wrote:

The ol' Black Bear actually accounts for many more attacks against
humans in
the US than does the Grizzly, which makes sense being as they are more
widely distributed and have a larger population. I carried a 12 guage
pump

Are you certain of that? I've read quite consistently that
the black bear is really very slow to attack a human, even
when it has cubs. Attacks are extremely rare.

I would think.
A few years ago in The Smoky Mountains National Park I
witnessed some fool approaching two bear cubs hand out
stretched like he was offering a nut to a chipmunk. Momma
bear charged him, he turned and ran (laughing like the idiot
he was) and the three bears headed for the dense brush.

John Keeney wrote:

I would think.
A few years ago in The Smoky Mountains National Park I
witnessed some fool approaching two bear cubs hand out
stretched like he was offering a nut to a chipmunk. Momma
bear charged him, he turned and ran (laughing like the idiot
he was) and the three bears headed for the dense brush.

A very interesting overview of black bear dangers in the US
and Canada can be found at:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/bears/17275

Complete with some gory details on fatal attacks. Most
interesting is the depth of stupidity some people exhibit
in dealing with bears.

In summary, although black bears tend to be overall non-aggressive
and no special threat to humans, black bear aggressiveness
varies a good deal by region.

Bears of the eastern US are the most mild and timid of the
species, with heightened aggressiveness in south and central
north. Canadian bears in the western part of the country
can be dangerous, with the bears of non-coastal British
Columbia being more dangerous than grizzlies!

The real terror is the "predacious black bear", which
fortunately isn't especially common, although more likely
to be encountered in the wilds of BC. It will actually prey
on humans.

Speculation as to why the bears vary so much in aggression
varies, but perhaps northern conifers provide less vegetation
to feed on as in more southern climates (a US black bear is
more vegetarian than carnivore).

Also perhaps habituation to humans. The bears in the deep
wilderness of inner BC may not know what a human is, other
than a tastey looking treat that is exceptionally slow and
unaware and apparently rather stupid.

Interesting stuff, but I think I'm mostly safe from the bears
until my next visit to BC!


SMH

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:33:19 -0400, Stephen Harding
wrote:

Are you certain of that? I've read quite consistently that
the black bear is really very slow to attack a human, even
when it has cubs. Attacks are extremely rare.

We have black bears in southern New Hampshire. Perhaps one sighting a
year in this college town. To the best of my knowledge, no one has
ever been attacked by a bear in the past century.

Of course, if you go kidnapping bear cubs ...


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

Are you certain of that? I've read quite consistently that
the black bear is really very slow to attack a human, even
when it has cubs. Attacks are extremely rare.

We have black bears in southern New Hampshire. Perhaps one sighting a
year in this college town. To the best of my knowledge, no one has
ever been attacked by a bear in the past century.

Of course, if you go kidnapping bear cubs ...


Yes black bears are not aggressive animals, usually when there has been a bear
attack, its been not because of a bear problem, but a problem with humans
leaving out food or being in close proximity to a bear and her cub.

Many times I have encountered black bears, and have chased them out of
campsites. Unless they have been habituated to the point where they equate
humans and food nearby (not eating humans, but eating human food), they will
typically run away when they encounter someone.

On that note, the only time I have been charged by a black bear, was when I
encounted a black bear and her cub. The cub was curious and wanted to check me
out, while the mom was not too big on that idea, and tried to chase me away.

In order to add military aviation content, there was B-24 wreckage on a nearby
mountain...


Ron
Tanker 65, C-54E (DC-4)
Silver City Tanker Base

"Ron" wrote in message
...
Are you certain of that? I've read quite consistently that
the black bear is really very slow to attack a human, even
when it has cubs. Attacks are extremely rare.

We have black bears in southern New Hampshire. Perhaps one sighting a
year in this college town. To the best of my knowledge, no one has
ever been attacked by a bear in the past century.

Of course, if you go kidnapping bear cubs ...


Yes black bears are not aggressive animals, usually when there has been a
bear
attack, its been not because of a bear problem, but a problem with humans
leaving out food or being in close proximity to a bear and her cub.

Many times I have encountered black bears, and have chased them out of
campsites. Unless they have been habituated to the point where they
equate
humans and food nearby (not eating humans, but eating human food), they
will
typically run away when they encounter someone.

On that note, the only time I have been charged by a black bear, was when
I
encounted a black bear and her cub. The cub was curious and wanted to
check me
out, while the mom was not too big on that idea, and tried to chase me
away.

You folks need to update your bear knowledge. Yes, black bears have indeed
accounted for fatalities (read as multiple, not singular) here in the US,
and the last two I read about (one on CO, the other in NM) had *nothing* to
do with either camping or cubs, but instead were people attacked *inside
their homes* (a few hundred pounds of bear apparently not being strongly
challenged by either door or window). And from what I gather yes, the number
of black bear attacks is greater than the number of grizzly attacks; as I
said before, that is to be expected, given their much greater population and
dispersion, and their propensity to lose their natural fear of man when
exposed to folks like the average idiot who can't grasp the importance of
not feeding the critters in our parks, etc. Other commonly held bear beliefs
that are now being questioned are the utility of the "play dead" defense
against a grizzly attack and the usefulness of those idiotic "bear bells"
that some hikers wear. And yes, I too have encountered black bears, and have
yet to have a problem with any of them--but I sure as heck am not going to
underestimate their potential of being a hazard, either. Given that in BC,
which has both blacks and grizzlies, the black has accounted for both more
attacks and more fatalities, dismissing them as being an insignificant
threat would appear to be foolish.

Brooks


In order to add military aviation content, there was B-24 wreckage on a
nearby
mountain...


Ron
Tanker 65, C-54E (DC-4)
Silver City Tanker Base

From: "Kevin Brooks"

But seriously, pepper spray has limited range and is OK for your own
personal protection. But if a cat threatens or grabs a kid you need to be
able
to reach out and touch the cat.

The problem is too many people carry sprays rated for humans. If memory serves
California has a law that limits the strength of the spray and requires
training before purchase.

I personally don't carry such a thing and use common sense around bears. Brown
bears are a bit laid back to the point of being lazy. Just look at a berry
patch one has raided. They leave quite a lot of berries and move on to where
they are easier to reach.

One safe thing to assume about any bear: if they are in your campsite at night
be prepared to fight. I hang my food at least 20 feet up and as far out on a
limb as is possible. I do this in a tree 10 - 15 yards upwind. Yes, full grown
bears can climb trees.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"B2431" wrote in message
...
From: "Kevin Brooks"

But seriously, pepper spray has limited range and is OK for your own
personal protection. But if a cat threatens or grabs a kid you need to
be
able
to reach out and touch the cat.

Uhmm...I did not say that. I believe that was Harry's posting.


The problem is too many people carry sprays rated for humans. If memory
serves
California has a law that limits the strength of the spray and requires
training before purchase.

I have the full-stregth stuff, and I'd still rather have a gun. The number I
saw was a 75% effective rate against bears; better than nothing, but that
still leaves you holding an empty spray can while trying to figure out what
to do about that 25-percenter bearing (pun) down on you. I have not seen any
documented cases yet where someone armed with a gun, and who shot same-said
bear, was subsequently killed.


I personally don't carry such a thing and use common sense around bears.
Brown
bears are a bit laid back to the point of being lazy. Just look at a berry
patch one has raided. They leave quite a lot of berries and move on to
where
they are easier to reach.

The Alaskan brown can be quite nasty, from what I have heard.


One safe thing to assume about any bear: if they are in your campsite at
night
be prepared to fight. I hang my food at least 20 feet up and as far out on
a
limb as is possible. I do this in a tree 10 - 15 yards upwind. Yes, full
grown
bears can climb trees.

I used parachute cord to do that in the Great Smoky Mountain NP--and woke up
the next morning to find that field mice had shimmied up the tree, down the
cord, and into our food supply. Can't win for losin' sometimes.

Brooks


Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired