Another mid-air (UK)

Chris,

I agree. This becomes a very subjective debate however I have
heard testimonial evidence that people don't fly their aircraft when their
FLARM is U/S.

Does this suggest that they consider that they have become complacent in
look-out following habitual use? or that they consider the risk of mid-air
is significantly higher without an early alert system or perhaps they don't
want to experience any more 'WTF was that' moments in their enjoyment of
the sport.

I still standby my comments, until I am provided with evidence, that the
risk of mid-air is not significantly reduced with FLARM introduction but it
does reduce the number of 'WTF was that' moments.

So I accept that as an aid it may make the flight more enjoyable but in
this thread I won't comment on the additional threats that alert systems
might be adding to comprimising flight safety by incorrect use and
distraction.

Neil


At 13:01 05 August 2014, Chris Rollings wrote:
I can't imagine anyone is going to admit to that or even realise it
applie
to them, at least until they have a mid-air or a very near miss.

At 20:35 04 August 2014, John Galloway wrote:
It has often been hypothesised that FLARM might cause
complacency but no study has found evidence of that. I would
be interested to hear from pilots who who have found that FLARM
use has made them complacent about look out.

John Galloway

On Tuesday, 5 August 2014 16:13:43 UTC+1, Neil Goudie wrote:
Chris,



I agree. This becomes a very subjective debate however I have

heard testimonial evidence that people don't fly their aircraft when their

FLARM is U/S.



Does this suggest that they consider that they have become complacent in

look-out following habitual use? or that they consider the risk of mid-air

is significantly higher without an early alert system or perhaps they don't

want to experience any more 'WTF was that' moments in their enjoyment of

the sport.



I still standby my comments, until I am provided with evidence, that the

risk of mid-air is not significantly reduced with FLARM introduction but it

does reduce the number of 'WTF was that' moments.



So I accept that as an aid it may make the flight more enjoyable but in

this thread I won't comment on the additional threats that alert systems

might be adding to comprimising flight safety by incorrect use and

distraction.



Neil


Neil, I agree that we don't yet know for sure the extent to which FLARM has affected mid-air collision statistics. What we can say for sure IMHO, and with the greatest respect what I think is missing from you comments, is that FLARM has the potential to have significant benefit if its use and limitations are taught and understood properly and, especially, if pilots learn from their experiences of the additional situational awareness information to improve their flying (so as to avoid getting into high risk situations) and also to improve their look out and see and avoid behaviour.

It also has the potential to be pretty pointless if pilots just stick it in their glider and expect it to "work" without them having thought through how to interact with it or to learn from it.

So - what has resulted so far from FLARM use is much less important than what we could make happen with it in the future.

Regrettably structured instruction on FLARM use has not found its way into ab initio training in the UK.

John Galloway

I believe the most recent UK mid-air, the one of which we have been seeing the dramatic photos of the wing parting, happened in a competition thermal gaggle. I find Flarm of little relevance in that situation.

Who would care to suggest a training syllabus for Flarm?

At 16:17 05 August 2014, waremark wrote:
I believe the most recent UK mid-air, the one of which we have
been seeing
the dramatic photos of the wing parting, happened in a
competition thermal
gaggle. I find Flarm of little relevance in that situation.


..and another happened in a thermal with two gliders alone.

So we conclude FLARM isn't any use in a gaggle, and isn't any use
not in a gaggle.
So in the context that most mid-airs happen in thermals, when is it
useful? Or is it the Emperor's New Clothes?