German-Wings Copilot "one of us"?

On Monday, March 30, 2015 at 9:30:05 AM UTC-4, Don Johnstone wrote:
At 12:48 30 March 2015, Mike Schumann wrote:

Since 9/11 the threat has changed. There hasn't been a successful
Hijackin=
g yet (except by pilots). Every attempt has been blocked by an immediate
r=
esponse by the crew and passengers to subdue to bad guy(s). The need for
s=
ecure cockpit doors has passed.

No it has not. Unauthorised access to the flight deck is still the greater
threat, still is potentially more harmful and more likely than any of the
other problems which occur in flight. The current incident is rare, very
rare as is a mechanical failure or mistake by the flight crew resulting in
a crash. The only reason there are fewer hi-jackings is that it has been
made too difficult.

There have been 3 fatal airline accidents in the last 17 months that appear to be the result of pilot suicides. How many hijackings have there been?

At 17:44 30 March 2015, Mike Schumann wrote:
On Monday, March 30, 2015 at 9:30:05 AM UTC-4, Don Johnstone wrote:
At 12:48 30 March 2015, Mike Schumann wrote:

Since 9/11 the threat has changed. There hasn't been a successful
Hijackin=
g yet (except by pilots). Every attempt has been blocked by an
immediate
r=
esponse by the crew and passengers to subdue to bad guy(s). The need
for
s=
ecure cockpit doors has passed.

No it has not. Unauthorised access to the flight deck is still the
greater
threat, still is potentially more harmful and more likely than any of
the
other problems which occur in flight. The current incident is rare,
very
rare as is a mechanical failure or mistake by the flight crew resulting
in
a crash. The only reason there are fewer hi-jackings is that it has
been
made too difficult.

There have been 3 fatal airline accidents in the last 17 months that
appear
to be the result of pilot suicides. How many hijackings have there been?

Is your memory really that short?

Posted by Tony Clark : Bipolar UK glider pilot (now ex pilot)

Re : u.r.a.s post 28th March

Title :- Germanwings compared to my BGA case.

Thanks for your comments Jonathon May (post 34) and Don Johnstone (post
33).

Not very correct in detail, Jonathon, but you did absorb one of the basic
concepts . . that I was bitter at the time of being denied passenger
clearance by the BGA medic, after the club CFI had cleared me 'technically'
. . but I now view this (over a decade later) as a generous judgement by Dr
Peter Saunby (the BGA Medical Advisor) since he was enlightened enough to
allow me to continue single-seat flying, albeit only from one nominated UK
club site only.

It was very unfortunate that I later 'wrote off' our jointly owned Vega
syndicate sailplane during a badly judged outlanding, indirectly caused by
my bipolar condition (see my u.r.a.s post re details) . . but this could
obviously have been 'maybe' taking my granddaughter for an ASK21 flight . .
Peter Saundby was proved correct.

However, the main point of my post was amazement that the German commercial
pilot was cleared to fly, not one passenger, as in my case, but thousands
of passengers, after 18 months of 'depression' in 2009.

May I urge r.a.s contributors to read Dr Peter Saundby's response to my
initial post . . his explanation of the German medical confidentiality laws
are both incredulous and frighening.

At that time (over a decade ago) Don Johnstone and I spoke privately by
email, of matters 'bipolar', and he was very supportive, knowing as he
does, much more about the bipolar condition than 99% of the population.

NOW RESUBMITTED TO INCLUDE THE WHOLE OF MY MESSAGE :-

Posted by Tony Clark : Bipolar UK glider pilot (now ex pilot)

Re : u.r.a.s post 28th March

Title :- Germanwings compared to my BGA case.

Thanks for your comments Jonathon May (post 34) and Don Johnstone (post
33).

Not very correct in detail, Jonathon, but you did absorb one of the basic
concepts . . that I was bitter at the time of being denied passenger
clearance by the BGA medic, after the club CFI had cleared me 'technically'
. . but I now view this (over a decade later) as a generous judgement by Dr
Peter Saunby (the BGA Medical Advisor) since he was enlightened enough to
allow me to continue single-seat flying, albeit only from one nominated UK
club site only.

It was very unfortunate that I later 'wrote off' our jointly owned Vega
syndicate sailplane during a badly judged outlanding, indirectly caused by
my bipolar condition (see my u.r.a.s post re details) . . but this could
obviously have been 'maybe' taking my granddaughter for an ASK21 flight . .
Peter Saundby was proved correct.

However, the main point of my post was amazement that the German commercial
pilot was cleared to fly, not one passenger, as in my case, but thousands
of passengers, after 18 months of 'depression' in 2009.

May I urge r.a.s contributors to read Dr Peter Saundby's response to my
initial post . . his explanation of the German medical confidentiality laws
are both incredulous and frighening.

At that time (over a decade ago) Don Johnstone and I spoke privately by
email, of matters 'bipolar', and he was very supportive, knowing as he
does, much more about the bipolar condition than 99% of the population.

At 17:44 30 March 2015, Mike Schumann wrote:


There have been 3 fatal airline accidents in the last 17 months that
appear
to be the result of pilot suicides. How many hijackings have there been?

There is no evidence as yet to prove, beyond reasonable doubt that the
above statement is at all true.
In the case of MH370 there is very little evidence to support any cause.
The fact that the aircraft appeared to continue at altitude, in the wrong
direction for a long time would seem to indicate that the crew was
incapacitated or dead. The most likely cause of that would have to be lack
of Oxygen. The circumstances would also tend to show that the passengers
suffered the same fate as the crew. There is little or no evidence that the
cause of the disappearance was a deliberate act.
The same applies to the current case. There is evidence to show that the
co-pilot did some very strange things, took actions which were unexpected.
There is no evidence to show that he did this "deliberately". We are in a
position where we think we know but really we do not.
We do however know that terrorists gained access to the cockpits of
airliners and deliberately crashed them into buildings, do you remember
that Mike? In those cases we know what happened because there is evidence
which confirms it.
As with all air accidents the conspiracy nuts and speculators are in
hyperdrive. Until we know for certain what occurred it would be stupid to
reverse an action which we know prevents a known threat. If it is shown
that pilot suicide is a greater threat than terrorists taking over an
aircraft then that will be the time to consider making changes.

At 09:33 31 March 2015, Don Johnstone wrote:
At 17:44 30 March 2015, Mike Schumann wrote:


There have been 3 fatal airline accidents in the last 17 months tha
appear
to be the result of pilot suicides. How many hijackings have there
been?

There is no evidence as yet to prove, beyond reasonable doubt that
th
above statement is at all true.
In the case of MH370 there is very little evidence to support any
cause
The fact that the aircraft appeared to continue at altitude, in the
wron
direction for a long time would seem to indicate that the crew wa
incapacitated or dead. The most likely cause of that would have to
be lac
of Oxygen. The circumstances would also tend to show that the
passenger
suffered the same fate as the crew. There is little or no evidence
that th
cause of the disappearance was a deliberate act.
The same applies to the current case. There is evidence to show
that th
co-pilot did some very strange things, took actions which were
unexpected
There is no evidence to show that he did this "deliberately". We are
in
position where we think we know but really we do not.
We do however know that terrorists gained access to the cockpits o
airliners and deliberately crashed them into buildings, do you
remembe
that Mike? In those cases we know what happened because there is
evidenc
which confirms it.
As with all air accidents the conspiracy nuts and speculators are i
hyperdrive. Until we know for certain what occurred it would be
stupid t
reverse an action which we know prevents a known threat. If it is
show
that pilot suicide is a greater threat than terrorists taking over a
aircraft then that will be the time to consider making changes.

Are you suggesting that the Malaysian and German investigators are
conspiracy nuts, Don?

At 10:11 31 March 2015, John Galloway wrote:
At 09:33 31 March 2015, Don Johnstone wrote:
At 17:44 30 March 2015, Mike Schumann wrote:


There have been 3 fatal airline accidents in the last 17 months tha
appear
to be the result of pilot suicides. How many hijackings have there
been?

There is no evidence as yet to prove, beyond reasonable doubt that
th
above statement is at all true.
In the case of MH370 there is very little evidence to support any
cause
The fact that the aircraft appeared to continue at altitude, in the
wron
direction for a long time would seem to indicate that the crew wa
incapacitated or dead. The most likely cause of that would have to
be lac
of Oxygen. The circumstances would also tend to show that the
passenger
suffered the same fate as the crew. There is little or no evidence
that th
cause of the disappearance was a deliberate act.
The same applies to the current case. There is evidence to show
that th
co-pilot did some very strange things, took actions which were
unexpected
There is no evidence to show that he did this "deliberately". We are
in
position where we think we know but really we do not.
We do however know that terrorists gained access to the cockpits o
airliners and deliberately crashed them into buildings, do you
remembe
that Mike? In those cases we know what happened because there is
evidenc
which confirms it.
As with all air accidents the conspiracy nuts and speculators are i
hyperdrive. Until we know for certain what occurred it would be
stupid t
reverse an action which we know prevents a known threat. If it is
show
that pilot suicide is a greater threat than terrorists taking over a
aircraft then that will be the time to consider making changes.

Are you suggesting that the Malaysian and German investigators are
conspiracy nuts, Don?

Absolutely not John, in fact the contrary. They know more than us. All we
have are a lot of "facts" which may or may not have been invented by the
media. The investigators have released some "facts" but no conclusions. The
"facts" that we have may be related or not, even if they exist, but even if
they are indeed facts they are not sufficient to support any definite
conclusion. As far as I am aware the investigators in both cases have not
reached any conclusion. The media have, but their priority is increasing
their profits, not ascertaining the truth. The conclusions being bandied
about at present are formulated by journalists who are well known for not
letting the truth get in the way of a good story, which feeds the
conspiracy nuts and speculators, which gives the journalists more to write
about, which feeds ............ ad nauseum.

On Tuesday, March 31, 2015 at 8:30:13 AM UTC-4, Don Johnstone wrote:

As far as I am aware the investigators in both cases have not
reached any conclusion. The media have, but their priority is increasing
their profits, not ascertaining the truth.

that's a fairly cynical view of the media, and although there's plenty of that going on, responsible media organizations (not their ad businesses) report news, and their priority is scoops, not profits.

--bob

"responsible media organizations" Now there's an oxymoron... Please
name one and be prepared to back up your claim with facts, not opinions.


On 3/31/2015 3:26 PM, Bob Pasker wrote:
On Tuesday, March 31, 2015 at 8:30:13 AM UTC-4, Don Johnstone wrote:

As far as I am aware the investigators in both cases have not
reached any conclusion. The media have, but their priority is increasing
their profits, not ascertaining the truth.
that's a fairly cynical view of the media, and although there's plenty of that going on, responsible media organizations (not their ad businesses) report news, and their priority is scoops, not profits.

--bob

--
Dan Marotta

At 21:26 31 March 2015, Bob Pasker wrote:
On Tuesday, March 31, 2015 at 8:30:13 AM UTC-4, Don Johnstone wrote:

As far as I am aware the investigators in both cases have not
reached any conclusion. The media have, but their priority is
increasing
their profits, not ascertaining the truth.

that's a fairly cynical view of the media, and although there's plenty of
that going on, responsible media organizations (not their ad businesses)
report news, and their priority is scoops, not profits.

--bob

OK if I accept your assertion that their priority is scoops, how does that
increase the veracity of their stories? I would contend that it does
exactly the opposite and in any case the "scoop" is very definitely linked
to their increase in income and therefore profit.
There is no such thing as a completely accurate and factual press report
and honest reporters are as rare as rocking horse turd.