Use of ridge lift for tow - review of procedure/protocol

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 9:29:26 AM UTC-4, wrote:
"soft release" is a poor practice and not needed. It makes the release of the rope less positive, makes it much harder for the tug pilot to know the glider is off, and in extreme cases can leave enough slack to be a hazard..
Releasing from normal position, without excess tension beyond stable tow, does no harm to properly maintained Schweizer hooks.
Good example of RAS being a prime source for bad practices and misinformation.
UH

Ditto that. I had some guy show up at Blairstown one time for a field check.. At the assigned altitude, I suddenly find us diving at the towplane. I think I only got to "What the f..." before he released, at which point the rope passed within a couple of inches of my eyes in the back seat before pulling away. Seriously? It's a dangerous solution to a non-problem.

P3

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 8:50:14 AM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 9:29:26 AM UTC-4, wrote:
"soft release" is a poor practice and not needed. It makes the release of the rope less positive, makes it much harder for the tug pilot to know the glider is off, and in extreme cases can leave enough slack to be a hazard.
Releasing from normal position, without excess tension beyond stable tow, does no harm to properly maintained Schweizer hooks.
Good example of RAS being a prime source for bad practices and misinformation.
UH

Ditto that. I had some guy show up at Blairstown one time for a field check. At the assigned altitude, I suddenly find us diving at the towplane. I think I only got to "What the f..." before he released, at which point the rope passed within a couple of inches of my eyes in the back seat before pulling away. Seriously? It's a dangerous solution to a non-problem..

P3

Ditto ditto that! Had a young student on an early solo flight in a 2-33 (used to a heavy IP in the back) try a soft release on a pattern tow and just about kite me into the ground - he got talked to, you can be sure.

And soft releases off a Tost are REALLY stupid!

And while we are venting, "slingshotting" at the top of a tow to get an extra 20 ft of altitude really gets me steamed, too....

Kirk
66

UH , I didn't say it was proper, I said it is what he did.
BillT

When we fly the SE ridge at Blairstown...IF...you know the ridge is working nicely...you only have to be towed to "get there"...height is almost meaningless...1000' or 1200' above the airport, (and below crest) is certainly doable and reasonably safe...although it is 3 miles back into a head wind if you decide to bail...

At Wurtsboro, the ridge is basically also the downwind leg for landing...I've released at 800' above the airport....you either go up in ridge lift, or if you don't, you just go down in the pattern! One day with a student, I got him to (reluctantly) release at 800', at the ridge...we flew straight along the ridge, after 10 miles we were at 3000'...

The craziest ridge tow I ever saw was at Harris Hill....The release was at 5'..

Yes, five feet above the airport!! The glider pilot hung on tow until the speed got up to about 70 or so...then released...flew down the runway..(it starts going down hill) and then off the cliff! Into the ridge lift and gone!

Of course in the old days, just north of Wurtsboro, they bungee launched off the ridge..maybe 2/3 of the way up. Today, at Ellenville, the hang gliders jump off at about the 1/2 way point...there is a good landing field below...so what could possibly go wrong?


Cookie






On Friday, June 26, 2015 at 12:38:57 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
What are the best practices for using ridge lift when towing?

What is different when the ridge altitude is increasing?

Should the tow plane approach the ridge perpendicular at the saddle (rather than at a 45)? What if circumstances force you to release at this point (pointed straight at the ridge, close and below)?


Is it okay to tow below the top of the ridge and utilize slope lift? (With the wind coming from the right or the left?)

Assuming that the wind is coming from the left, is it okay to release, uncrab and drift downwind to clear towplane rather than circling right and ending up low and on the leeward side of the ridge.

If you're above the ridge and the wind is coming from the right, is it okay to release and make the towplane go onto the leeward sink side of the ridge?

Other things to keep in mind?

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 8:26:56 PM UTC-4, Cookie wrote:

The craziest ridge tow I ever saw was at Harris Hill....The release was at 5'..

Yes, five feet above the airport!! The glider pilot hung on tow until the speed got up to about 70 or so...then released...flew down the runway..(it starts going down hill) and then off the cliff! Into the ridge lift and gone!

For the few readers that are unfamiliar with Harris Hill, there is an 'emergency runway' maintained 700 feet below the end of the primary runway.

Nice for PTOT3.

the only place where I have rented that practices soft releases is Estrella, in AZ. Its now on my checklist of "things to keep the check pilot happy," and ever other place wants a standard release. --bob

So true. After flying with Jason at Estrella I had check rides at two different soaring locations before renting and I used Jason's soft release technique. HEAVILY CRITICIZED by both CFIs for the soft release.
I have used it a couple of times during my private tows and have seen the towplane fly straight ahead for a couple miles before realizing that I was no longer on tow.

A so-called soft release is OK by me if I happen to be looking in the
mirror at the time of release but I will log your release height at the
point where I realize you're gone, not where you claim you got off.

There was an article in Soaring back in the 80s, I believe, which
discussed rope tension during tow. It's not very much for a glass
glider (20 lb) and I wouldn't think more than 40 lb. or so for a drag
master (2-33). There's no harm in releasing at that tension. Why fly a
bunch of maneuvers just to get a little slack before releasing?

On 7/3/2015 8:32 AM, wrote:
So true. After flying with Jason at Estrella I had check rides at two different soaring locations before renting and I used Jason's soft release technique. HEAVILY CRITICIZED by both CFIs for the soft release.
I have used it a couple of times during my private tows and have seen the towplane fly straight ahead for a couple miles before realizing that I was no longer on tow.

--
Dan Marotta

Dan, you're the right guy to put a recording digital fish scale on a tow rope and give us an authoritative answer. --bob

On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 8:01:02 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
A so-called soft release is OK by me if I happen to be looking in
the mirror at the time of release but I will log your release height
at the point where I realize you're gone, not where you claim you
got off.



There was an article in Soaring back in the 80s, I believe, which
discussed rope tension during tow.* It's not very much for a glass
glider (20 lb) and I wouldn't think more than 40 lb. or so for a
drag master (2-33).* There's no harm in releasing at that tension.*
Why fly a bunch of maneuvers just to get a little slack before
releasing?




On 7/3/2015 8:32 AM,
wrote:



So true. After flying with Jason at Estrella I had check rides at two different soaring locations before renting and I used Jason's soft release technique. HEAVILY CRITICIZED by both CFIs for the soft release.
I have used it a couple of times during my private tows and have seen the towplane fly straight ahead for a couple miles before realizing that I was no longer on tow.





--

Dan Marotta

Having an ASH26E, I'm rarely at the distal end of a tow rope. But as a part time, when needed tuggie at Minden, I've been victim of soft releases. We even once had an instructor who seemed to take delight in getting off with a loose rope to see how long I'd keep climbing away. He'd do the same in wave day rotor, when even a normal tension release can easily go unnoticed for awhile.

I like it when a glider says something like, "Glider AA off at 5800, thanks!" That both tells you he's off, and also confirms altitude so there's no surprises paying the tab.

bumper