The highly successful UK Junior XC program vs. USA's nonexistantJunior XC program. Why?

John hit the proverbial nail on the head. I believe the SSA should encourage clubs to add single place glass ships to their fleets and do more to encourage cross-country instruction/mentoring across the board. I think proactive policy decisions along these lines (at both the SSA and member club levels), will lead to a more engaged membership and greater retention of pilots (especially younger pilots).

I know a lot of european clubs have refurbished Standard Cirrus, Discus, ASW-20, LS4, etc. that are used by pilots and Juniors alike to persue cross country with. I think this approach not only fascilitates Junior participation but leads to retaining Millenials and GenX that may not be quite ready to buy the $90-150k sailplane of their dreams until the kids are all out of the house. In the meantime, both the mean age for a Regional or National contest here in the US continues to approach the geriatric threshold, which in the long run will make it more difficult to sustain sport, the SSA and many of the clubs that exist around the country.

-Christopher Schrader

On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 9:27:48 AM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
Did anyone know that the UK Junior nationals utilizes a Junior CD, manager, weather-person, etc! How brilliant! If anyone cannot see the genius behind this, I feel sorry for them.

Country size: We could divide the United States into 5 or 6 equal segments of greater population than the UK. To perform equally in terms of juniors, we would need a Junior nationals of some 350 youth pilots! Or 6 regions of 60 Juniors. Geography is not a real problem from this realistic perspective. Geography is a poor and tired excuse for US soaring numbers. We are performing at something like 1% the UKs level right now in terms of Jr's when population size is considered. Essentially, we are a joke.

The question is what are the benefits of a vibrant Junior Cross Country (not pattern flying) program? We would not know in the USA right now because, we absolutely do not have none. We only have a few bright Juniors who are able to participate regardless of the lack of organized junior XC structure or an established junior cross country culture. They are trying to build this on their own with a Facebook page, etc.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/USJRSoaring/

It has 63 members (including a number of adults). It should have 1500+ and 100 of them should be aiming for next years Junior National Championships (but I digress).

Imagine the Junior talent the United States would enjoy if we had 70 such kids flying their own contest every summer. Britain (1/6 the size) has a vibrant youth XC soaring (not pattern licenses) program with literally several hundred Junior pilots either involved or aiming to participate.

The question is what do we value as a soaring country? What are our priorities? What does our soaring leadership value? Where do we invest time and effort? What does the SSA value? What do our soaring instructors value and what are their skills? And most importantly, what do US soaring clubs value? Many of our "soaring?" clubs that actually discourage cross country soaring! I always find that fact amazing.

I would hope that our current SSA leadership sees the importance of organized and successful Junior cross country culture and takes action to rebuild one now. It's a question of priorities. One wonders what else is more important to be honest. As SSA leaders, they have the opportunity to study the problem, put a plan together, organize a team, and inspire a massive country that is essentially forsaking its junior pilots. But this must start at the top and remain a serious priority. Articles, reports, etc.

The SSA convention is in a few months. Let's hope the topic of developing Junior XC soaring is prominent, front and center and not glazed over or status quo (non-existent). We have numerous examples of how other countries are supporting their Juniors. Will our current leaders respond?

I look forward to seeing what happens!

Sean
7T

Hey Sean,

I wasn't using geography as an excuse for our low number of junior pilots, for the record. I do view the geographic considerations as a significant factor in mass participation at one single event, and I don't think it's a poor excuse at all, but a reality. How many kids with a high-school budget, or U.S. student loan debt can afford to travel across the country with a sailplane? Travel expenses adds several hundred if not $1000 dollars to an already expensive event.

Don't get me wrong, i wasn't trying to pessimistically detract from your vision, but add to the discussion by pointing out a relevant factor as something to think about. a junior national contest in the US will have someone travelling 1500 miles at least. In turn you came back with a 5-6 region proposal. i think all of this is constructive.

as a 28 year old, how do i say this without sounding crass?

I really like flying against younger guys and i would love to see the average age at contests take a dive. It would be great to have junior make up a large percentage of U.S. contests. under the current conditions I think it would only really happen in Club Class or US Sports class because of the cost of the gliders that can be flown reasonably. if you look at the competitor list for Lasham, MOST of them were flying inexpensive club class gliders..

At 13:27 10 September 2015, Sean Fidler wrote:
Numerous snips
Geography is a poor and tired excuse for US soaring numbers.
We are performing at something like 1% the UKs level right now
in terms of Jr's when population size is considered. Essentially,
we are a joke.

The question is what do we value as a soaring country? What are
our priorities? What does our soaring leadership value? Where do
we invest time and effort? What does the SSA value? What do our
soaring instructors value and what are their skills? And most
importantly, what do US soaring clubs value? Many of our "soaring?"
clubs that actually discourage cross country soaring! I always find
that fact amazing.

I would hope that our current SSA leadership sees the importance
of organized and successful Junior cross country culture and takes
action to rebuild one now. It's a question of priorities. One wonders
what else is more important to be honest. As SSA leaders, they have
the opportunity to study the problem, put a plan together, organize a
team, and inspire a massive country that is essentially forsaking its
junior pilots. But this must start at the top and remain a serious
priority. Articles, reports, etc.

The SSA convention is in a few months. Let's hope the topic of
developing Junior XC soaring is prominent, front and center and not
glazed over or status quo (non-existent). We have numerous
examples of how other countries are supporting their Juniors. Will
our current leaders respond? I look forward to seeing what happens!
Sean 7T

Your position in a nutshell seems to be that the decline in U.S. soaring
is directly attributable to the failure of SSA's leadership to magically
find some way of opening the flood gates for the droves of young
people anxiously waiting to become xc soaring competitors.

Being the staunch soaring competitor you are, I'm sure no one has
any hope of enlightening you to the fact that the steady decline in
soaring is the cumulative effects of a complex myriad of issues.
Which can not be turned around simply by focusing on any single
issue.

For decades I have listened to individuals rants concerning what U.S.
soaring needs. The more common are, cheaper access (more clubs), cheaper
tows (winch launches), more youth, better equipment
(particularly in clubs), better access (to public airports).
Unfortunately
even after many decades the underlying issues are as problematic as
ever. I could seriously argue that the single biggest detriment to
soaring in the U.S. has been the cumulative effects of SSA's historical
failure to work with the FAA in assuring that glider operations were a
normal inclusive part of airport operations and subsequent airport
planning. But that ship sailed a long time ago and U.S. soaring will
forever be paying the price.

But to address your specific current complaints about SSA, there is a
saying. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Rather than stand on the sidelines complaining about SSA leadership,
step up to the plate and in the next elections have a winning platform
and become a regional director. In the mean time spend less time
accusing others of their inadequacies and put that energy into clearly
developing specific detailed plans of action for successfully
implementing the changes you envision. While at the same time lobby
hard in all of the regions to convince the members that your plan is
the right plan for SSA. If you get enough of the membership on board,
they will pressure their directors to work toward that goal. If your
concept is truly credible and the masses agree. Work at establishing
work groups in each region comprised of pilots who agree with your
agenda for fixing soaring. These groups can then work at convincing
current directors of the need to implement necessary changes and eventually
if necessary eventually nominating and electing someone
more in sync with this new philosophy.

From a competition perspective, in spite of having some of the
premier soaring in the U.S.. It has been a long time since Region 12
has had yearly regional contests. Most recently there was no director
election required because the existing region 12 director was unopposed.
If your ideas can be shown to truly have merit, then it shouldn't be
difficult to persuade a group of region 12 pilots to nominate and elect a
director who supports that vision. But just jumping up and down on the
sidelines will have no impact whatsoever.

The big question is why is someone on "the sidelines" required to bring this up? Why is this not the SSAs highest priority already? What are the current leaders really focused on?

Your correct. I'm not involved in the SSA leadership. This is absolutely true. I am simply one person making a point (on RAS) about our lack of a U..S. Jr cross country culture. I say plainly that our Jrs are pattern pilots with almost zero opportunity to learn true soaring like their peers in Europe, Australia and elsewhere. I say that is a shame, an utter failure of leadership and is THE REASON why our sport is on the decline.

He who lives in a glass house (whatever the hell that means). Are you not being a "tad" dramatic? If pointing out our lack of a junior nationals in the US bothers anyone, I do not give a flying crap. Deal with it however you must.

What the SSA does about this failure is entirely up to them. Yep, it probably will result in diddly squat. Most SSA members are focused on only what directly effects them in the next 12 months (contest rules, club politics, ADSB, etc). Leaders must broader vision and stategy. Do we have effective leaders? We shall see.

As for me, fire away all you wish. Yawn.

At 13:27 10 September 2015, Sean Fidler wrote:
Numerous snips
Geography is a poor and tired excuse for US soaring numbers.
We are performing at something like 1% the UKs level right now
in terms of Jr's when population size is considered. Essentially,
we are a joke.

The question is what do we value as a soaring country? What are
our priorities? What does our soaring leadership value? Where do
we invest time and effort? What does the SSA value? What do our
soaring instructors value and what are their skills? And most
importantly, what do US soaring clubs value? Many of our "soaring?"
clubs that actually discourage cross country soaring! I always find
that fact amazing.

I would hope that our current SSA leadership sees the importance
of organized and successful Junior cross country culture and takes
action to rebuild one now. It's a question of priorities. One wonders
what else is more important to be honest. As SSA leaders, they have
the opportunity to study the problem, put a plan together, organize a
team, and inspire a massive country that is essentially forsaking its
junior pilots. But this must start at the top and remain a serious
priority. Articles, reports, etc.

The SSA convention is in a few months. Let's hope the topic of
developing Junior XC soaring is prominent, front and center and not
glazed over or status quo (non-existent). We have numerous
examples of how other countries are supporting their Juniors. Will
our current leaders respond? I look forward to seeing what happens!
Sean 7T

Your position in a nutshell seems to be that the decline in U.S. soaring
is directly attributable to the failure of SSA's leadership to magically
find some way of opening the flood gates for the droves of young
people anxiously waiting to become xc soaring competitors.

Being the staunch soaring competitor you are, I'm sure no one has
any hope of enlightening you to the fact that the steady decline in
soaring is the cumulative effects of a complex myriad of issues.
Which can not be turned around simply by focusing on any single
issue.

For decades I have listened to individuals rants concerning what U.S.
soaring needs. The more common are, cheaper access (more clubs), cheaper
tows (winch launches), more youth, better equipment
(particularly in clubs), better access (to public airports).
Unfortunately
even after many decades the underlying issues are as problematic as
ever. I could seriously argue that the single biggest detriment to
soaring in the U.S. has been the cumulative effects of SSA's historical
failure to work with the FAA in assuring that glider operations were a
normal inclusive part of airport operations and subsequent airport
planning. But that ship sailed a long time ago and U.S. soaring will
forever be paying the price.

But to address your specific current complaints about SSA, there is a
saying. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Rather than stand on the sidelines complaining about SSA leadership,
step up to the plate and in the next elections have a winning platform
and become a regional director. In the mean time spend less time
accusing others of their inadequacies and put that energy into clearly
developing specific detailed plans of action for successfully
implementing the changes you envision. While at the same time lobby
hard in all of the regions to convince the members that your plan is
the right plan for SSA. If you get enough of the membership on board,
they will pressure their directors to work toward that goal. If your
concept is truly credible and the masses agree. Work at establishing
work groups in each region comprised of pilots who agree with your
agenda for fixing soaring. These groups can then work at convincing
current directors of the need to implement necessary changes and eventually
if necessary eventually nominating and electing someone
more in sync with this new philosophy.

From a competition perspective, in spite of having some of the
premier soaring in the U.S.. It has been a long time since Region 12
has had yearly regional contests. Most recently there was no director
election required because the existing region 12 director was unopposed.
If your ideas can be shown to truly have merit, then it shouldn't be
difficult to persuade a group of region 12 pilots to nominate and elect a
director who supports that vision. But just jumping up and down on the
sidelines will have no impact whatsoever.

The big question is why is some nobody on "the sidelines" required to bring this up? Why is this not the SSAs highest priority already? What are the current leaders really focused on?

You're correct. I'm not involved in the SSA leadership. This is absolutely true. I am simply one person making a point (on RAS) about our lack of a U.S. Jr cross country culture. It strikes me as painfully obvious and critically important. I say plainly that our juniors are merely trained to be pattern pilots with almost zero encouragement or opportunity to learn true XC soaring like their peers in Europe, Australia and elsewhere. I say that is a crying shame, an utter failure of our leadership and is THE REASON why our sport is on the decline in the USA.

"He who lives in a glass house..." (whatever the hell that means). Are you not being a "tad" dramatic? If pointing out our lack of a junior nationals (or even junior cross country pilots) in the US bothers anyone, I honestly do not give a flying crap. Deal with it however you must.

What the "SSA does!" about this failure is entirely up to them. Yep, my thread here probably will result in diddly squat. Most SSA members are narrowly focused on only what directly effects them in the next 12 months (contest rules, club politics, ADSB, etc). Most SSA members and clubs are not concerned about developing junior cross country pilots at all. Leaders must have broader vision and stategy. Leaders must LEAD! Do we have effective leaders? We shall see.

As for me, fire away all you wish. Yawn. This is what I do for fun. You would not believe what I do when I am serious, trust me.

In Germany there are more than 15 gliders given to junior pilots each year ranging from Libelle to Nimbus 4. Five of those are distributed on a national level. Most larger federal soaring associations also provide multiple gliders for youth promotion on a regional level. All of these gliders were privatly financed/donated at one time or another. We are not talking about state financing or our soaring association paying for everything. In most cases small clubs/trusts are founded to maintain these gliders by collecting donations and fees from supporting members. Current junior pilots take care of most maintenance work. Administration is done on an honorary basis. Former pilots chip in donations later in life when they can afford it. Whenever possible these gliders are updated to more current models, usually by collecting donations. Since gliders hardly lose value the bulk financing of a new glider can be achieved by selling the old ones. Do this steadily across more than 30 years and you see former LS1 evolve into a Discus 2ct spreading the financial burden over decades.

You are not going to copy almost a century of european gliding club culture in the States any time soon, but setting up two or three gliders for promoting junior soaring should be easy enough. A fully world championship competition ready club class glider need not cost cost more than 12k EUR in good condition with a resonable trailer (If you don't believe me, I have got one for sale). The cost of suberb instrumentation is a joke with prices of full featured variometer systems of the late nineties bottoming out and XCsoar outperforming the commercial alternatives on many details. A fully competition ready glider has never been cheaper than today.

Forget any national bodies like the SSA to take the initiative. If you want something to change then do it yourself. Find your XC enthousiastic friends, found a trust, collect donations, buy some nice club class gliders (or whatever you can afford) and find your worthy juniors to support.

Interesting post Alexander. Amazing insight. Thanks!

On Friday, September 11, 2015 at 10:52:36 AM UTC-4, Alexander Swagemakers wrote:
In Germany there are more than 15 gliders given to junior pilots each year ranging from Libelle to Nimbus 4. Five of those are distributed on a national level. Most larger federal soaring associations also provide multiple gliders for youth promotion on a regional level. All of these gliders were privatly financed/donated at one time or another. We are not talking about state financing or our soaring association paying for everything. In most cases small clubs/trusts are founded to maintain these gliders by collecting donations and fees from supporting members. Current junior pilots take care of most maintenance work. Administration is done on an honorary basis. Former pilots chip in donations later in life when they can afford it. Whenever possible these gliders are updated to more current models, usually by collecting donations. Since gliders hardly lose value the bulk financing of a new glider can be achieved by selling the old ones. Do this steadily across more than 30 years and you see former LS1 evolve into a Discus 2ct spreading the financial burden over decades.

You are not going to copy almost a century of european gliding club culture in the States any time soon, but setting up two or three gliders for promoting junior soaring should be easy enough. A fully world championship competition ready club class glider need not cost cost more than 12k EUR in good condition with a resonable trailer (If you don't believe me, I have got one for sale). The cost of suberb instrumentation is a joke with prices of full featured variometer systems of the late nineties bottoming out and XCsoar outperforming the commercial alternatives on many details. A fully competition ready glider has never been cheaper than today.

Forget any national bodies like the SSA to take the initiative. If you want something to change then do it yourself. Find your XC enthousiastic friends, found a trust, collect donations, buy some nice club class gliders (or whatever you can afford) and find your worthy juniors to support.

I suspect we have a few in the US but nobody keeps count.
At my club in NY, the juniors have 2 gliders free of cost. They have a 1-26 for early flying after solo, and a Std Libelle after they complete the private certificate.
Harris Hill has a Discus dedicated to the juniors.
Anybody else know of club ships dedicated to juniors in the US?
UH

Hank,

Your club and Harris Hill are way ahead of the curve (but still need to go further). We need dozens, hundreds more clubs like those and a special program for elite Jrs as well. Our biggest obstacle are clubs that actively discourage cross country. Not just for Juniors. First step is to understand the true nature of the problem better. Most, I suspect, would argue that no cross country is not a problem.

Sean