Advertising for tow pilots

On Friday, September 25, 2015 at 9:06:01 PM UTC-6, Sarah wrote:
On Friday, September 25, 2015 at 8:20:30 PM UTC-5, wrote:
As often happens this discussion has gone off track from my original request. While discussion of pilot qualifications is useful, my original post was ASKING HOW AND WHERE TO ADVERTISE to recruit tow pilots.

I'd be willing to put up free postings or even pay advertising if I knew it would be seen by reasonably qualified candidates. I just don't know where to ask or advertise, got any ideas?

thanks
Chris

You could contact your local EAA chapters --- and maybe get a notice put in their newsletter or email distributions: http://www.eaa.org/apps/chapters/chaptermap.aspx

You could also put up postings on your local grass-airport bulletin boards. These airports tend to attract tail-wheel types.

Expanding a bit on what Sarah suggests, engage other flying clubs and flight schools in the area.

These may introduce you to interested persons and they may also find getting a glider rating attractive.

However, be prepared to grow your own tow pilots. The suggestion that they have a glider rating is a good one. I think we may have one tow pilot that doesn't hold a glider rating. My chapter waives dues for active tow pilots. The commitment used to be two duty days a month. To me, this is wrong headed because for several years they didn't enforce that rule. Charge dues and credit back 50% per day served. Our tow pilots received a show up stipend and small remuneration per tow. Gas money for the sometimes long commute.

The no dues, no joining fee bit us once. A couple of guys signed up, got checked out, and departed with the endorsements. Subsequent tow pilot members have paid the joining plus a deposit that were refundable after a year of acceptable performance. The dues thing is still on the dumb side. Modern accounting programs make management trivial.

Rookie mistakes. I'm aware of at least three rookie mistakes that resulted in two Pawnees on their nose and a Super Cub on its back (that wasn't a rookie IIRC. Not sure about the recent ground loop.). I'm not a tow pilot, but I do drive our club winch as much as possible. I've walked and driven over every inch of our gliderport a number of times. It's not flat, but undulating, and the vegetation changes seasonally. I've encountered calving antelope, badgers, skunks, llamas, roaming pronghorn herds, and other critters on the ground. We've hooked hidden debris (including a car seat) and tie downs (cross runway) with the steel wire rope (setting at least one grass fire) and now UHMWPE rope over the years. We've lost strops and rings for up to four years in the prairie grass. One may still be on the other side of the Interstate. However, we usually find the missing items within days or weeks despite missing them in organized searches.

The Pawnees that ended up on their noses hit runway edges or parking berms. Like I said, rookie mistakes, as they added enough throttle to complete the upsets. What the chief tow pilots may have failed to do was walk the pilots to and from the launch area to the hangars a couple of times. Thus the budding tow pilot careers were nipped in the bud unnecessarily. Do yourselves a favor. Walk the route, and alternate routes, a time or three. I'm sure the newbies were quite prepared to do the tows.

I'm not aware of any way to advertise. However, it may pay off to do some grunt work. You'll need MS Access or skill with MySQL or similar. Download the FAA Airmen Releasable Database. You will have to join or create a view of the personal data and the ratings data and construct a query or SQL statement to filter for SEL and glider ratings, including private and commercial. Filter by your state, then by neighboring states, or by zip codes. Your SSA state governor(s) can get a list of SSA members to help filter further. I may be able to help with expired SSA members. With this information you may find inactive glider pilots who have had towing experience and maybe now would be a good time to return to the sport as both glider and tow pilot. It will take time and effort. I once did a query on North Dakota (looking for an SSA governor candidate, without success). What I did find was 55 pilots with glider ratings. 11 were CFI-G's! I suspect some may have flown at times with the Winnipeg Gliding Club. Others may have flown with a South Dakota group. One was an OTR trucker. He usually flew at commercial operations in California and Arizona.

That said, I don't think your task is easy, but it isn't ominous. The hard part is finding a phone number or e-mail for each pilot you can list. But a bit of smart searching on the Internet can get a result 80-90 percent of the time.

Frank Whiteley
970-330-2050 7am-10pm MDT

I think the suggestion to contact the local EAA chapter is the best I've
ever seen to this question which continually comes up. You might also
contact the local CAF chapter, if you have one; lots of tail dragger
pilots there, too.

As to training, if you can't or won't get a C-182, look into a Callair
http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac1/austa2/VH-APC%283%29.html. A
great tow plane that even your mother can land without difficulty. And,
yes, I know it's so ugly that the earth repels it...

Dan

On 9/25/2015 10:59 PM, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Friday, September 25, 2015 at 9:06:01 PM UTC-6, Sarah wrote:
On Friday, September 25, 2015 at 8:20:30 PM UTC-5, wrote:
As often happens this discussion has gone off track from my original request. While discussion of pilot qualifications is useful, my original post was ASKING HOW AND WHERE TO ADVERTISE to recruit tow pilots.

I'd be willing to put up free postings or even pay advertising if I knew it would be seen by reasonably qualified candidates. I just don't know where to ask or advertise, got any ideas?

thanks
Chris
You could contact your local EAA chapters --- and maybe get a notice put in their newsletter or email distributions: http://www.eaa.org/apps/chapters/chaptermap.aspx

You could also put up postings on your local grass-airport bulletin boards. These airports tend to attract tail-wheel types.
Expanding a bit on what Sarah suggests, engage other flying clubs and flight schools in the area.

These may introduce you to interested persons and they may also find getting a glider rating attractive.

However, be prepared to grow your own tow pilots. The suggestion that they have a glider rating is a good one. I think we may have one tow pilot that doesn't hold a glider rating. My chapter waives dues for active tow pilots. The commitment used to be two duty days a month. To me, this is wrong headed because for several years they didn't enforce that rule. Charge dues and credit back 50% per day served. Our tow pilots received a show up stipend and small remuneration per tow. Gas money for the sometimes long commute.

The no dues, no joining fee bit us once. A couple of guys signed up, got checked out, and departed with the endorsements. Subsequent tow pilot members have paid the joining plus a deposit that were refundable after a year of acceptable performance. The dues thing is still on the dumb side. Modern accounting programs make management trivial.

Rookie mistakes. I'm aware of at least three rookie mistakes that resulted in two Pawnees on their nose and a Super Cub on its back (that wasn't a rookie IIRC. Not sure about the recent ground loop.). I'm not a tow pilot, but I do drive our club winch as much as possible. I've walked and driven over every inch of our gliderport a number of times. It's not flat, but undulating, and the vegetation changes seasonally. I've encountered calving antelope, badgers, skunks, llamas, roaming pronghorn herds, and other critters on the ground. We've hooked hidden debris (including a car seat) and tie downs (cross runway) with the steel wire rope (setting at least one grass fire) and now UHMWPE rope over the years. We've lost strops and rings for up to four years in the prairie grass. One may still be on the other side of the Interstate. However, we usually find the missing items within days or weeks despite missing them in organized searches.

The Pawnees that ended up on their noses hit runway edges or parking berms. Like I said, rookie mistakes, as they added enough throttle to complete the upsets. What the chief tow pilots may have failed to do was walk the pilots to and from the launch area to the hangars a couple of times. Thus the budding tow pilot careers were nipped in the bud unnecessarily. Do yourselves a favor. Walk the route, and alternate routes, a time or three. I'm sure the newbies were quite prepared to do the tows.

I'm not aware of any way to advertise. However, it may pay off to do some grunt work. You'll need MS Access or skill with MySQL or similar. Download the FAA Airmen Releasable Database. You will have to join or create a view of the personal data and the ratings data and construct a query or SQL statement to filter for SEL and glider ratings, including private and commercial. Filter by your state, then by neighboring states, or by zip codes. Your SSA state governor(s) can get a list of SSA members to help filter further. I may be able to help with expired SSA members. With this information you may find inactive glider pilots who have had towing experience and maybe now would be a good time to return to the sport as both glider and tow pilot. It will take time and effort. I once did a query on North Dakota (looking for an SSA governor candidate, without success). What I did find was 55 pilots with glider ratings. 11 were CFI-G's! I suspect some may have flown at times with the Winnipeg Gliding Club. Others may have flown with a South Dakota group. One was an OTR trucker. He usually flew at commercial operations in California and Arizona.

That said, I don't think your task is easy, but it isn't ominous. The hard part is finding a phone number or e-mail for each pilot you can list. But a bit of smart searching on the Internet can get a result 80-90 percent of the time.

Frank Whiteley
970-330-2050 7am-10pm MDT

--
Dan, 5J

On Friday, September 25, 2015 at 8:20:30 PM UTC-5, wrote:
As often happens this discussion has gone off track from my original request. While discussion of pilot qualifications is useful, my original post was ASKING HOW AND WHERE TO ADVERTISE to recruit tow pilots.

I'd be willing to put up free postings or even pay advertising if I knew it would be seen by reasonably qualified candidates. I just don't know where to ask or advertise, got any ideas?

thanks
Chris

Sorry Chris, I'll try to delete my post in this thread about having tricycle gear towplanes to increase the potential tow pilot pool.

A few members have suggested we sell our Pawnee for a C182 to increase the possible pool. Well, it would make new members joining easier to transition to towing if they already had an airplane rating. It might make recruitment of possible members easier, but to get them to fly gliders is the goal. All the C182s I've seen towing cannot perform the same as the Pawnee.

We offer tow pilots discounts on the next years dues. 25% and 50% based on how many tow days they are on the schedule.
BillT

On Saturday, September 26, 2015 at 8:38:06 PM UTC-7, Bill T wrote:
but to get them to fly gliders is the goal. All the C182s I've seen towing cannot perform the same as the Pawnee.


Awww Bill.
You're busting my chops. ;-)

I kept my place in rotation (due to traffic density) usually,
but I lapped a few Pawnees while towing with my C-182 at Tonopah Nationals a decade ago. The only one I couldn't beat was the Brave (375 hp to my 230).
It has to do with being aware, and fluent, and using lift
and sink productively, which is why we all like tuggies that soar.
We were never abusive to the airplane. They cost too much to fix....

There is a reason Cal City, Marfa, Ephrata, Sunflower and many others have used
the C-182s for a few decades. Dual uses, training initial tug drivers, recurrent tug training, larger insurable pilot pool at lower initial qualification expense, durable in outside parking.

and to recruiting new tug pilots .... respect to the original poster...
try talking to folks at the closer aeronautical engineering training outlets. These young folks might be willing to make a commitment -- for an entre into the real work of aviation.

And - respect those folks on the front end. Engage them in the business of teaching - signals, review of signal performance with the students. It keeps everyone sharper and ready to communicate when it becomes urgent.

Cindy B

Chris--

We organized an FAA FAST (Wings) Aviation Safety Seminar specifically for "tail dragger" pilots. We had several of our tow pilots conduct the safety seminar with help from the local FSDO office. They were a big help on subject matter and of course they also sent out hundreds of invitations for us. The actual seminar attracted about 50 pilots and we wound up with three excellent TP candidates. Talk to your FSDO safety officer.

Skip Guimond, PGC

A slightly different perspective:

We (SLSA) seem to have no problem finding tailwheel-endorsed pilots, and all but two of our 14-odd (no pun intended!) tow pilots are also glider pilots. We have 2 Pawnees and a 180 Supercub, as well as a Cessna 120 for tailwheel checkouts and plain old fun flying (at $50/hr wet...).

We own our grass glider field and pride ouselves on being a tailwheel-friendly airport - to the point of joking about charging a landing fee to any nose-dragger that drops in (unless he can land backwards...) - as we also have a privately owned J-3, RV-6, and Pacer based on the field, with a J-4 being rebuilt as a winter project; recent visitors include a Stearman, Pitts S-1C, Champ, Decathelon, a tricked out Supercub, and a turbine Air Tractor that stopped in one morning low on fuel. We almost put a tow hook on him!

Personally, if a pilot can't make the effort to get his tailwheel and high-power endorsement, along with a glider rating, I'm not sure we want him towing for us! Our tow pilots are not building time, or getting any pay or breaks in club fees - they do it for the fun of it. And we like it that way.

Tow with a 182? Why bother! Real airplanes have sticks and the small wheel at the back!

Cheers,

Kirk
66
Happy Pawnee driver...