General Zinni on Sixty Minutes

President Bush fulfilled his duty.

Bush clearly did not complete his military service. There is no dispute on
that.

Walt

"WalterM140" wrote:
President Bush fulfilled his duty.

Bush clearly did not complete his military service. There is no dispute
on
that.

The Department of Defense at the time he left the service disagrees with
your claim.

"WalterM140" wrote in message
...

Bush clearly did not complete his military service.


Bush clearly completed his military service.



There is no dispute on that.


Actually, many ignorant people dispute it.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:


"WalterM140" wrote in message
...

Bush clearly did not complete his military service.


Bush clearly completed his military service.



There is no dispute on that.


Actually, many ignorant people dispute it.

Bye guys...I'll check back in a month...hopefully this political
stuff will be over by then...I'm outta here...
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

Yeah you are right. I am ashamed of myself with my measly combat record of
50
missions over Germany being no match for the no-show Bush who hid in
Texas
while the Nam war war raged. Mea Culpa. Mea Culpa.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Is your own record the benchmark? If so the vast majority, including Al
Gore, Bill Clinton, John Kerry, etc. would not qualify.


Everyone hasn't done what Art did, but a large number (including Gore) did what
they were required to do. Bush did not.

Walt

WalterM140 wrote:
Yeah you are right. I am ashamed of myself with my measly combat record of

50

missions over Germany being no match for the no-show Bush who hid in

Texas

while the Nam war war raged. Mea Culpa. Mea Culpa.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Is your own record the benchmark? If so the vast majority, including Al
Gore, Bill Clinton, John Kerry, etc. would not qualify.



Everyone hasn't done what Art did, but a large number (including Gore) did what
they were required to do. Bush did not.

I've never voted for a Bush, but I can't blame George and Bar for
getting their kid a save haven during Vietnam. Why waste a child in a
foolish and illegal war?

At least they didn't get him a complete exemption, as did the Cheney's.
I am amused, though, by the cynicism of those who brag up Bush for
zooming around in an F102. He wasn't a pilot because of his brains and
physical prowess. Had his daddy been a janitor in Harlem, rather than a
Repulican swell, he'd have been humping the boonies and dodging punji
sticks.

Cheers

--mike

Walt

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 15:10:29 GMT, Mike Dargan
wrote:

I've never voted for a Bush, but I can't blame George and Bar for
getting their kid a save haven during Vietnam. Why waste a child in a
foolish and illegal war?

Seems to me that our Constitutional process was followed in that war.
Who declared it illegal? And, foolish? Only if you didn't see a
Communist threat of world domination at that time. (That last phrase
is key...we know now much more about the validity of the threat, but
in the late '50s and '60s, it looked pretty real.)

At least they didn't get him a complete exemption, as did the Cheney's.
I am amused, though, by the cynicism of those who brag up Bush for
zooming around in an F102. He wasn't a pilot because of his brains and
physical prowess. Had his daddy been a janitor in Harlem, rather than a
Repulican swell, he'd have been humping the boonies and dodging punji
sticks.

Dunno about that last. My daddy was a very low level functionary for a
Chicago newspaper, living in the city, making about $150 a week and I
didn't hump the boonies or dodge punjis. Seems like it's always been
possible with hard work and perseverance for anyone in America to get
to college and even to gain an AF commission and fly jets. Doesn't
take Skull & Bones to make the grade, only commitment.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

"WalterM140" wrote in message
...

Everyone hasn't done what Art did, but a large number (including Gore)
did what they were required to do. Bush did not.


Gore served five months of a one-year tour in Vietnam, Bush completed his
military service.

On 04 Jun 2004 16:48:14 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/4/04 8:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time

On 04 Jun 2004 14:02:04 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

What military service?
.
Arthur Kramer

Art, you of all people should respect someone who earned a commission
in the USAF and completed AF pilot training, then went on to
operationally qualify in a single-seat/single-engine fighter and fly
it for four and a half years.

Did you serve that long?

Ed Rasimus

Yeah you are right. I am ashamed of myself with my measly combat record of 50
missions over Germany being no match for the no-show Bush who hid in Texas
while the Nam war war raged. Mea Culpa. Mea Culpa.


Arthur Kramer

No, Art, you shouldn't be ashamed for your service. You are
justifiably proud. But, you should be at least a bit sheepish for
continually repeating an assertion that has no merit.

George Bush served in the TANG. He spent many years (my point was that
his length of service was at least equal if not longer than yours.) He
did make a choice, but his choice to take a commission, go to pilot
training and fly a fighter might be arguably superior to folks like Al
Gore, who despite his college education and leadership capabilities
chose to serve as a private admin clerk and spend less than half of
the required combat tour in-country. Or John Kerry who chose to demean
and insult his fellow warriors calling them traitors, war criminals,
rapists and murderers.

Bush "showed" for a year of pilot training, several months of various
survival schools, almost a year of F-102 qualification and a couple of
years of operational alert. His eight months in Alabama after all of
that service is the time in question and there are still the facts
that the organization he was attached to was in transition from an
aircraft he did not fly to another aircraft he was not qualified in.
It was a simple administrative posting of an ANG officer. Duty
requirements were minimal and that was exactly the reason he had
requested the posting.

Bush flew an airplane that could have killed him on any given day. He
could not have known the future when he started, but at that time the
F-102 was in Vietnam and it was flown predominantly by ANG pilots. By
the time he was qualified in the system that was no longer the case.
And, as previously mentioned ANG pilots don't get to pick and choose
between systems. The fly what their state owns.

You can have whatever political opinions you want, but you have to
stop ignoring the facts and making these groundless assertions.
Respect others as you wish to have them respect you. Different people
serve in different ways and for different reasons.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...

George Bush served in the TANG. He spent many years (my point was that
his length of service was at least equal if not longer than yours.) He
did make a choice, but his choice to take a commission, go to pilot
training and fly a fighter might be arguably superior to folks like Al
Gore, who despite his college education and leadership capabilities
chose to serve as a private admin clerk and spend less than half of
the required combat tour in-country. Or John Kerry who chose to demean
and insult his fellow warriors calling them traitors, war criminals,
rapists and murderers.


And also served less than half of his combat tour.



You can have whatever political opinions you want, but you have to
stop ignoring the facts and making these groundless assertions.


That's not possible. One cannot hold the political opinions that Art holds
unless one ignores the facts.