For Keith Willshaw...

For more info check out:
"Who paid the Piper? . The CIA and cultural Cold War". By Frances Saunders.

On sale now on paranoia street no doubt. Remember folks, lack
of evidence is proof of two conspiracies, the original and the cover up.
The lack of evidence for the cover up is proof of three conspiracies,
and so on, head for the big conspiracy sale near you, pay your money
and be told what you want to here as people make themselves rich
at your expense.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.

I see,"deny everything" and "stick to official version",seem to be only ways to
find the truths.

It worked in 1861,it worked in 1898,it worked in 1941, so,why not in 2001 or
2004?.

Game is the same but audience is very different now,thats the reason why the
credibility of US today is better than,well,used car salesman .




There was no "law" there was effectively a petition. One that was
turned down. Do not worry the fact the moon was in the third house
is also proof of the conspiracy, FDR wearing his green socks the
secret sign and so on.

I dont know if FDR were wearing green socks but if the President had signed it
before 9/11,it could be understood by some as a radical policy change.

This is quite funny, if the findings were kept secret period how would
anyone know Kimmel had been exonerated?

I dont know what Kimmel said in Court but he said during an interview in 1958:

"My belief is that Gen.Short and I were not given information available in
Washington and were not informed of the impending attack because it was feared
that the action in Hawai might deter Japanese from making the attack.Our
President has repeatedly assured the American people that the US would not
enter the war unless we were attacked .The Japanase attack on the fleet would
put the US in the war with the full support of American Public"


Sounds like he was telling the story of 9/11/2001 in 1958 !.

From: (Denyav)
snip

It worked in 1861,it worked in 1898,it worked in 1941, so,why not in 2001 or
2004?.



Oh, now I understand. You repeat the same thing many times and it becomes fact.
How stupid of me to not notice sooner.

I didn't realize Lincoln had caused the 30 or 40 years of build up to the
secession and the told The Confederates they should shoot first and Sumter was
a nice target. http://www.tulane.edu/~latner/FinalO...rder_intro.htm

Wow, I think you are right. The Navy blew up their own boat in Havana Harbour
in 1898 because the Spanish wouldn't cooperate and do it for them.
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq71-1.htm

I guess this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt the Kimmel's interviews were the
truth. [editor's note: this is getting deep] It would never occur to me that
Kimmel was trying to simply improve his image in the history books.

Amazing how the trend you present proves beyond any question Bush talked
Clinton into not collecting Bin Ladin when he had a chance so tha Bush could
have his war. [editor's note: forget saving your shoes, save your watch]

Now, denyev, you have proved your point [editor's note: the shovel broke] when
and where will the next trumped up attack occur?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

I didn't realize Lincoln had caused the 30 or 40 years of build up to the
secession and the told The Confederates they should shoot first and Sumter
was
a nice target. http://www.tulane.edu/~latner/FinalO...rder_intro.htm

Read "Truth of war conspiracy of 1861" by Johnstone.
BTW Author of this book based his case solely on official records published by
US War department.

Wow, I think you are right. The Navy blew up their own boat in Havana Harbour
in 1898 because the Spanish wouldn't cooperate and do it for them.
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq71-1.htm

So whats your point?
In 1898 new empire was in need of colonies so motto was:
"Evil Spanians destroyed Maine,REMEMBER MAINE,teach evil Spanians a lesson"

Rest is history
(Of course Spanians nothing to do with Maine sinking)

Kimmel was trying to simply improve his image in the history books.

For FDR&Co much more than improving their standing in history books was in
stake.

Now, denyev, you have proved your point [editor's note: the shovel broke]
when
and where will the next trumped up attack occur?

Unfortunately,unlike previous three cases,this time it looks like that
politicians and military failed to capitalize on success of PSYOP at the start.
If whole operation crumles it does not matter if you execute a PSYOP
succesfully or not.Morever if whole operation fails the planners of such PSYOPs
are usually first to go.
Let me clarify this, for example if US had lost Spanish -American war,the
masterminds of Maine incident would be the first ones to go,not Generals or
Admirals who lost actual battles.

BTW I hope some recent high profile resignations helps you to understand what I
mean.

On 13 Jun 2004 03:47:48 GMT, (Denyav) wrote:

I didn't realize Lincoln had caused the 30 or 40 years of build up to the
secession and the told The Confederates they should shoot first and Sumter
was
a nice target. http://www.tulane.edu/~latner/FinalO...rder_intro.htm

Read "Truth of war conspiracy of 1861" by Johnstone.
BTW Author of this book based his case solely on official records published by
US War department.

Care to provide the ISBN? No sign of such a book on Amazon.

Peter Kemp

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
For more info check out:
"Who paid the Piper? . The CIA and cultural Cold War". By Frances
Saunders.

On sale now on paranoia street no doubt. Remember folks, lack
of evidence is proof of two conspiracies, the original and the cover up.
The lack of evidence for the cover up is proof of three conspiracies,
and so on, head for the big conspiracy sale near you, pay your money
and be told what you want to here as people make themselves rich
at your expense.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.

I see,"deny everything" and "stick to official version",seem to be only
ways to
find the truths.

It worked in 1861,it worked in 1898,it worked in 1941, so,why not in 2001
or
2004?.


Again, listing dates does not equal proving conspiracy.

Again, listing dates does not equal proving conspiracy.

If you did not understand 1861,you cannot understand 1941.
If you did not know what happened in 1898,you cannot understand what happened
in 2001.

Its an 150 years old tradition of US government.

In article ,
on 12 Jun 2004 08:11:33 GMT,
Denyav attempted to say .....

For more info check out:
"Who paid the Piper? . The CIA and cultural Cold War". By Frances Saunders.

On sale now on paranoia street no doubt. Remember folks, lack
of evidence is proof of two conspiracies, the original and the cover up.
The lack of evidence for the cover up is proof of three conspiracies,
and so on, head for the big conspiracy sale near you, pay your money
and be told what you want to here as people make themselves rich
at your expense.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.

I see,"deny everything" and "stick to official version",seem to be only ways to
find the truths.

It worked in 1861,it worked in 1898,it worked in 1941, so,why not in 2001 or
2004?.

Game is the same but audience is very different now,thats the reason why the
credibility of US today is better than,well,used car salesman .




There was no "law" there was effectively a petition. One that was
turned down. Do not worry the fact the moon was in the third house
is also proof of the conspiracy, FDR wearing his green socks the
secret sign and so on.

I dont know if FDR were wearing green socks but if the President had signed it
before 9/11,it could be understood by some as a radical policy change.

Try that again, in English or as close as you can get. It didn't make any
sense at all my friend.


This is quite funny, if the findings were kept secret period how would
anyone know Kimmel had been exonerated?

I dont know what Kimmel said in Court but he said during an interview in 1958:

"My belief is that Gen.Short and I were not given information available in
Washington and were not informed of the impending attack because it was feared
that the action in Hawai might deter Japanese from making the attack.Our
President has repeatedly assured the American people that the US would not
enter the war unless we were attacked .The Japanase attack on the fleet would
put the US in the war with the full support of American Public"

The words of a man that failed in his duty and would not admit it.

Why, when Adm Halsey sailed earlier that week and informed Adm Kimmel that
he intended to shoot down or sink any Japanese ships or aircraft he might
encounter on his way to and from Wake Is.
Did Adm Halsey have intel that his boss did not posses ?
No, Adm Halsey could see the signs, that Adm Kimmel refused to see them and
to head those warnings he recieved only reinforce the Navies decision to
fire him.


Note he uses the word "belief"



Sounds like he was telling the story of 9/11/2001 in 1958 !.

What no Nostradamus quotes ?


--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

The words of a man that failed in his duty and would not admit it.

Why, when Adm Halsey sailed earlier that week and informed Adm Kimmel that
he intended to shoot down or sink any Japanese ships or aircraft he might
encounter on his way to and from Wake Is.
Did Adm Halsey have intel that his boss did not posses ?
No, Adm Halsey could see the signs, that Adm Kimmel refused to see them and
to head those warnings he recieved only reinforce the Navies decision to
fire

Read the transcripts of the one of the congressional meetings.(I posted the
link)

According to current knowledge it is without any doubt clear that that
Washington withhold the information they knew from Hawaii.
There is a general agreement here.differences start after this point according
to government or researchers backing gov't view there is no conspiracy here
only honest mistakes,officials did not realize the importance of deciphered
messages.
Thats a big lie officials who made honest mistakes do try to hide the existence
of phone conversation with British PM lust before Pearl Harbor attack.
Truth is not only US had prior knowledge of Pearl Harbor attack but also
British.

In article ,
on 14 Jun 2004 05:28:55 GMT,
Denyav attempted to say .....

The words of a man that failed in his duty and would not admit it.

Why, when Adm Halsey sailed earlier that week and informed Adm Kimmel that
he intended to shoot down or sink any Japanese ships or aircraft he might
encounter on his way to and from Wake Is.
Did Adm Halsey have intel that his boss did not posses ?
No, Adm Halsey could see the signs, that Adm Kimmel refused to see them and
to head those warnings he recieved only reinforce the Navies decision to
fire

Read the transcripts of the one of the congressional meetings.(I posted the
link)

I have read them, apparently in greater detail than you have.
Can you answer why Adm. Halsey informed his boss, Adm Kimmel of his
intentions on sailing from PH the week prior to 7 December ?



According to current knowledge it is without any doubt clear that that
Washington withhold the information they knew from Hawaii.

No, there isn't.


There is a general agreement here.differences start after this point according
to government or researchers backing gov't view there is no conspiracy here
only honest mistakes,officials did not realize the importance of deciphered
messages.

No, there isn't.

Thats a big lie officials who made honest mistakes do try to hide the existence
of phone conversation with British PM lust before Pearl Harbor attack.
Truth is not only US had prior knowledge of Pearl Harbor attack but also
British.

But what about the Dutch ?
Did they know ?



--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

(Denyav) wrote in message ...
The words of a man that failed in his duty and would not admit it.

Why, when Adm Halsey sailed earlier that week and informed Adm Kimmel that
he intended to shoot down or sink any Japanese ships or aircraft he might
encounter on his way to and from Wake Is.
Did Adm Halsey have intel that his boss did not posses ?
No, Adm Halsey could see the signs, that Adm Kimmel refused to see them and
to head those warnings he recieved only reinforce the Navies decision to
fire


Actually Kimmel saw things long before Halsey and sticked to proven
naval tradition of keeping ships at the sea when international
relations are critical and ordered 46 ships to the safety of open sea
without notifying Washington.
He even ordered the fleet to carry out a mock air raid on Pearl
Harbor.
White House did not like Kimmels actions, countermanded his orders and
ordered fleet to return to Pearl Harbor.
So when the "Grand exercise" cancelled Halseys 25-ship plan
appeared.This smaller scale plan too might have deterred Japanase if
it could be carried out.
So why even Halseys plan too did not go anywhere?
Because Washington ordered Halsey on Nov,26 to use his carriers to
transport aircraft to Midway and Wake Island!.

With this move Washington achieved two objectives,
1)Only force that could possibly detect and deter Japanase was no
longer there
2)Most precious assets of the Navy that were needed in the war with
Japan,the carriers, were in safety.



Battleships which were already obsolete in naval warfare were the
baits for the Iapanese and excellent PSYOP opportunity for FDR.

This order came from Stark but prepared by McCollum ,the architect
FDRs Japan plan.