Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve

But wasn't the whole point of the US presence to prevent the North
grabbing the South? They kept fighting until the US withdrew, then moved
on to achieve their goal.

Two years passed between those two events. That's a long time: an
entire hitch, for a draftee. There were troops who entered the army
after the last American combat unit left Vietnam in March 1973, who
served out their term, and who were back in civilian life before Hue
fell in March 1975.

It is true, of course, that the U.S. accepted in 1975 what it wouldn't
have accepted in 1965: a North Vietnamese invasion across the DMZ.
There were three U.S. presidents involved in making policy on Vietnam
(four if you include Eisenhower), so there is little wonder that the
policy changed. Why should Nixon have felt obligated to carry out a
policy formulated by the president who preceded the president who
preceded him?


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! www.vivabush.org

Subject: Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve
From: "George Z. Bush" am
Date: 6/11/2004 4:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Ed Rasimus wrote:
On 11 Jun 2004 16:40:05 GMT, (Lisakbernacchia)
wrote:

Is it true that you can't read a usenet thread?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"

How many Purple Hearts do you have? Is ir true you are a warrior who lost
his
war?

I have no Purple Hearts. The idea is to kill or wound the enemy
without being killed or wounded yourself. You might do a quick rerun
of George C. Scott's Patton speech, pay attention to the part about
"making the other poor, dumb ******* die for his country."

I take great pride in being acknowledged as a warrior. Thank you for
that. No, I lost no wars. I returned a winner along with hundreds of
other warriors.


You lost no wars? I was under the impression that after we left that sad,
unfortunate country, the only thing we had to show for our efforts was that
big,
black wall in Washington and a grievously divided nation that apparently
exists
to this day. What was it that we supposedly won? We must have won something
since you claim that you didn't lose any wars. What was it?
Territory? Reparations? An indigenous Vietnamese government to our
political
liking? What did we get out of it as "victors"?

George Z.

They kicked our ass. Rasimus hasn't tthe guts to admit it.

"Lisakbernacchia" wrote in message
...
Subject: Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve
From: "George Z. Bush" am
Date: 6/11/2004 4:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Ed Rasimus wrote:
On 11 Jun 2004 16:40:05 GMT, (Lisakbernacchia)
wrote:

Is it true that you can't read a usenet thread?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"

How many Purple Hearts do you have? Is ir true you are a warrior who
lost
his
war?

I have no Purple Hearts. The idea is to kill or wound the enemy
without being killed or wounded yourself. You might do a quick rerun
of George C. Scott's Patton speech, pay attention to the part about
"making the other poor, dumb ******* die for his country."

I take great pride in being acknowledged as a warrior. Thank you for
that. No, I lost no wars. I returned a winner along with hundreds of
other warriors.


You lost no wars? I was under the impression that after we left that
sad,
unfortunate country, the only thing we had to show for our efforts was
that
big,
black wall in Washington and a grievously divided nation that apparently
exists
to this day. What was it that we supposedly won? We must have won
something
since you claim that you didn't lose any wars. What was it?
Territory? Reparations? An indigenous Vietnamese government to our
political
liking? What did we get out of it as "victors"?

George Z.

They kicked our ass. Rasimus hasn't tthe guts to admit it.


You have a very different notion of ass kicking than I do! Do a comparison
between the US and Vietnam, both during the war and today, and I think it
will be pretty clear who is on top!

Jarg

Lisakbernacchia wrote:

They kicked our ass. Rasimus hasn't tthe guts to admit it.


They may have kicked your ass, Lisa my dear, but Ed and I came home winners,
just as we left.

LBJ, MacNamara and a host of other losers just like yourelf lost that war. It is
also untrue that the country has been divided ever since. Only a relatively few
unrepentant fools, as they have grown older, still hold on to their sophomoric
and unquestioning hatred of the flag and the people who defend it.



Jack

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:13:08 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:

You lost no wars? I was under the impression that after we left that sad,
unfortunate country, the only thing we had to show for our efforts was that big,
black wall in Washington and a grievously divided nation that apparently exists
to this day. What was it that we supposedly won? We must have won something
since you claim that you didn't lose any wars. What was it?
Territory? Reparations? An indigenous Vietnamese government to our political
liking? What did we get out of it as "victors"?

George Z.


I didn't lose. My country lost a lot, but it wasn't the war. It was
pride in being an American and a fundamental belief in democracy. It
was a belief that we were morally anchored and the communists (and now
the jihadist fundamentalist muslims) were wrong. It was the firm
conviction that we were not the reason for injustice and poverty in
this world, but rather the source of a better way.

Take a look, if you choose at Vietnam today. If you see a communist
victory there, you aren't looking very closely. They are a flourishing
capitalist society. They are trading globally, entertaining tourists
from around the world, and the new version of the Hanoi Hilton--the
real hotel chain--advertises an "American breakfast" as included with
the room rate.

What did we get out of it? We changed the way we organize, train and
fight our wars. We lost one F-105 for every 65 sorties over N. Vietnam
in '66 and '67. We lost one fixed wing aircraft for every 3500 sorties
during Desert Storm. We lost one fixed wing aircraft...period, in
Iraqi Freedom for 16,500 sorties. We learned some lessons.

Stop feeling guilty, George. We're Americans and have a right to be
proud.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

In article ,
Ed Rasimus wrote:

....
What did we get out of it? We changed the way we organize, train and
fight our wars. We lost one F-105 for every 65 sorties over N. Vietnam
in '66 and '67. We lost one fixed wing aircraft for every 3500 sorties
during Desert Storm. We lost one fixed wing aircraft...period, in
Iraqi Freedom for 16,500 sorties. We learned some lessons.

Do you suppose the fact that Iraq didn't have the advantage of real-time
super-power support (from the Soviets) in the form of arms, training,
and "advisors" has anything to do with it?




--Mike

Michael Wise wrote:

In article ,
Ed Rasimus wrote:

...
What did we get out of it? We changed the way we organize, train and
fight our wars. We lost one F-105 for every 65 sorties over N. Vietnam
in '66 and '67. We lost one fixed wing aircraft for every 3500 sorties
during Desert Storm. We lost one fixed wing aircraft...period, in
Iraqi Freedom for 16,500 sorties. We learned some lessons.

Do you suppose the fact that Iraq didn't have the advantage of real-time
super-power support (from the Soviets) in the form of arms, training,
and "advisors" has anything to do with it?

nevermind the fact that the US didn't really have air superiority over
vietnam, nor
did they have the benefit of having waxed almost all the SAM batteries
already, nor
did they have AWACS aircraft to tell their fighters where the Migs were 200
or 300 miles
out. Yeah...learned some lessons... learned how not to do it next time. And
how not to do it
is against someone as capable as themselves again. Go after the small
enemies, then your president
can look good on tv. ignore the big fish that'd kick yer arse again.

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 05:11:46 GMT, Michael Wise wrote:

In article ,
Ed Rasimus wrote:

...
What did we get out of it? We changed the way we organize, train and
fight our wars. We lost one F-105 for every 65 sorties over N. Vietnam
in '66 and '67. We lost one fixed wing aircraft for every 3500 sorties
during Desert Storm. We lost one fixed wing aircraft...period, in
Iraqi Freedom for 16,500 sorties. We learned some lessons.

Do you suppose the fact that Iraq didn't have the advantage of real-time
super-power support (from the Soviets) in the form of arms, training,
and "advisors" has anything to do with it?

You might want to check out the equippage, advising, training and
doctrine in place at the start of Desert Storm before repeating that
bit of revisionism. Some analysts even contend that the failure of
Soviet militarysupport so clearly displayed contributed to the
collapse of the SU.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Subject: Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/11/2004 11:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 11 Jun 2004 15:13:35 GMT, (Lisakbernacchia)
wrote:

Is it true that Bush hid behind his dads apron strings in Texas while Kerry
was
at war?

Is it true that you can't read a usenet thread?


Ed Rasimus

Is it true that Bush hid behind his dads apron strings in Texas while Kerry was
at war? ANSWER THE QUESTION

From: (Lisakbernacchia)
Date: 6/11/2004 11:45 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Subject: Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/11/2004 11:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 11 Jun 2004 15:13:35 GMT, (Lisakbernacchia)
wrote:

Is it true that Bush hid behind his dads apron strings in Texas while Kerry
was
at war?

Is it true that you can't read a usenet thread?


Ed Rasimus

Is it true that Bush hid behind his dads apron strings in Texas while Kerry
was
at war? ANSWER THE QUESTION

Why should he? You have already made up your mind despite the facts.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired