Senate and House have Approved Third-Class Medical Reform

wrote:
On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 9:16:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
wrote:
On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 1:31:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
wrote:
On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 9:24:56 AM UTC-4, Vaughn Simon wrote:
On 7/20/2016 8:44 PM, wrote:
There is no data showing having all GA pilots take a 3rd class medical
has accomplished anything.

That's the real take-away point. After doing this for (what? a half
century?) there is no data that shows that the third class physical does
anything to reduce accidents. At the same time, we have parallel
populations of pilots, glider pilots in particular, that have long
operated perfectly well without any requirement for physicals.

People who got turned down due to medical reasons, and then later
dropped dead at the grocery store, aren't statistically charted
by someone who follows their lives and makes an FAA report after
the fact. Same for mentally unstable. If they commit suicide, no
one calls the FAA about a non-pilot. In flight medical emergencies
being a small percentage anyway, would appear to be a non-issue
among a smaller population of flyers. Should that population
significantly increase, and should there be no oversight, then
logically it will become an issue.

I watched a guy in his 40's drop dead while sipping a cup of coffee
the day after an extensive physical; a physical in general is no
guarantee of much of anything, and particularly a 3rd class physical.

Then maybe under the new rules there should be a few *specific*
tests relevant to piloting. The first one being a "plaque test",
and then a focus on possible hypertension.

And the other 5 to 10 things that could cause one to keel over with
little to no previous symptoms?

Perhaps semi-annual MRI's and CT scans at about $4,000 a pop just to be
sure.

Um, the plaque test should pretty much do it for a read on
arterial calcification. An MRI wouldn't be a bad idea if one
has a family history of Intracranial Aneurysm Rupture, but
otherwise it's a waste of money. The former is worth paying
the deductible as it answers a lot of questions.

The average cost of a MRI in the US is $2,600. How often do you
recommend doing this?

There never has been any test of mental stability for civilian pilots.

Well, not directly. But if their history of prior diagnosis by another
doctor gave indications or prognoses of such, then it may be an
insurmountable hurdle. And might should be.

If what history?

Very few people go to mental health professionals unless there is a
big problem.

Then they've probably not been hospitalized or incarcerated,
and aren't a known risk. This doesn't mean unstable people don't
quietly walk among us. The problem in this category seems to be
a lack of identification. (most "terrorists" lately may actually
be psychotically disturbed folks wearing that label.) My GP knows
very little about mental health beyond a Wikipedia education.
Addressing this gap is something that could solve several problems.

So how many crazy GA pilots are crashing their airplanes per year?

A lot of peiple are missing the point that you do still need to take
a physical, just not one with the FAA paperwork burden in front of an AME.

To tell you the truth, I'd rather go before an AME than a non-pilot
GP who's lack of familiarity with the experience would cause them to
flag non-issues off the "top of their head".

1) The 3rd class physical is a joke and less extensive than the normal
physical my docotor gives.

Ok.

2) There is a checklist of items for your doctor to check, it is just
not forwarded to the FAA.

A good doctor is hard to find.

I'm in favor of expediting the screening process, and making it
easier for me to fly.

This fellow seems to think it won't:

"This reform bill is going to be more trouble than it is worth. Think
about it - you still have to see a doctor every four years. I can
assure you that their physical will be a lot more intense - blood work,
EKG - the works.

My doctor already does all this; if you are over 40 any decent doctor
should.

Second, you still have to do something to qualify - take an online
training class every two years. I'll bet it will take a lot longer
than the 30 to 45 minutes that a Third Class Medical takes.

Something that can be done at any time including the middle of the night
on a weekend, and it is free.

What happened to being medically fit if you have a driver's license?

You have to be able to see and hear; flying doesn't require much more.

This entire thing is a joke and politically driven by the AOPA and
the EAA. Additionally, they could not get the original bill passed
on its own so they had to follow the Pork process and stuff into
another bill. This entire thing was written in such a way to
appease the FAA and ALPA. It does not benefit the GA Private Pilot.
You can be assured that if the doctor, who most likely has never
done an FAA medical, is not happy with his findings, he or she
will not sign you off. You are in no better shape. Remember you
do not need a physical to drive a car!!"

Sounds like an AME who is about to lose his 3rd class gravey train.

I explained what happens in a 3rd class to my doctor and how much it
costs. He shook his head and asked how to get in on this.


--
Jim Pennino

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 12:46:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Um, the plaque test should pretty much do it for a read on
arterial calcification. An MRI wouldn't be a bad idea if one
has a family history of Intracranial Aneurysm Rupture, but
otherwise it's a waste of money. The former is worth paying
the deductible as it answers a lot of questions.

The average cost of a MRI in the US is $2,600. How often do you
recommend doing this?

If you can't afford medical insurance, you can't afford to fly.

My plaque test after deductible was about 35 bucks. As they said
there wasn't even a hint of any, I figure check again in about
10 years. Unlike most Americans I'm not overweight, don't smoke,
don't drink, exercise daily, and eat very healthy.

You can save a loved one or yourself by finding out if you're
afflicted with atherosclerosis and/or vascular plaque, as this
is what causes a sudden myocardial infarction which has caused
numerous plane crashes.


There never has been any test of mental stability for civilian pilots.

Well, not directly. But if their history of prior diagnosis by another
doctor gave indications or prognoses of such, then it may be an
insurmountable hurdle. And might should be.

If what history?

Very few people go to mental health professionals unless there is a
big problem.

Then they've probably not been hospitalized or incarcerated,
and aren't a known risk. This doesn't mean unstable people don't
quietly walk among us. The problem in this category seems to be
a lack of identification. (most "terrorists" lately may actually
be psychotically disturbed folks wearing that label.) My GP knows
very little about mental health beyond a Wikipedia education.
Addressing this gap is something that could solve several problems.

So how many crazy GA pilots are crashing their airplanes per year?

Attention deficit and lack of concentration go with depression, and
cognitive rigidity. You don't have to be suicidal like that
commercial pilot that intentionally nose grounded a passenger jet.
I'm not saying it's statistically a big problem today. Substance
abuse is a mental issue, including flying intoxicated.

Most crashes are pilot error. Most errors are mental lapses. Why?

---

wrote:
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 12:46:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Um, the plaque test should pretty much do it for a read on
arterial calcification. An MRI wouldn't be a bad idea if one
has a family history of Intracranial Aneurysm Rupture, but
otherwise it's a waste of money. The former is worth paying
the deductible as it answers a lot of questions.

The average cost of a MRI in the US is $2,600. How often do you
recommend doing this?

If you can't afford medical insurance, you can't afford to fly.

Medical insurance will not pay for a MRI "just because"; there would
have to be some indication of an issue to justify insurance paying.

And the point here was hidden condtions that don't show up in any but
the most extensive of physicals and certainly not in a 3rd class physical.

My plaque test after deductible was about 35 bucks. As they said
there wasn't even a hint of any, I figure check again in about
10 years. Unlike most Americans I'm not overweight, don't smoke,
don't drink, exercise daily, and eat very healthy.

And a fair number of people who are not overweight, don't smoke, don't drink,
exercise daily, and eat very healthy drop dead every day from something
that did not show up in a routine physical.

So what does that have to do with 3rd class physicals?

You can save a loved one or yourself by finding out if you're
afflicted with atherosclerosis and/or vascular plaque, as this
is what causes a sudden myocardial infarction which has caused
numerous plane crashes.

As there has never been any test for such things in a 3rd class physical,
it is irrelevant to the issue.

There never has been any test of mental stability for civilian pilots.

Well, not directly. But if their history of prior diagnosis by another
doctor gave indications or prognoses of such, then it may be an
insurmountable hurdle. And might should be.

If what history?

Very few people go to mental health professionals unless there is a
big problem.

Then they've probably not been hospitalized or incarcerated,
and aren't a known risk. This doesn't mean unstable people don't
quietly walk among us. The problem in this category seems to be
a lack of identification. (most "terrorists" lately may actually
be psychotically disturbed folks wearing that label.) My GP knows
very little about mental health beyond a Wikipedia education.
Addressing this gap is something that could solve several problems.

So how many crazy GA pilots are crashing their airplanes per year?

Attention deficit and lack of concentration go with depression, and
cognitive rigidity. You don't have to be suicidal like that
commercial pilot that intentionally nose grounded a passenger jet.
I'm not saying it's statistically a big problem today. Substance
abuse is a mental issue, including flying intoxicated.

And the relevance to a 3rd class physical is?

Most crashes are pilot error. Most errors are mental lapses. Why?

Lots of reasons and well documented such as "Hey, guys, watch this",
get home-itis, lack of proper planning, etc.


--
Jim Pennino