Are 'Single 180 Turn From Downwind to Final' and 'Stall-spin on Turnfrom Base to Final' mutually exclusive?

Regarding the many ideas posted, it is probably fitting to repost the following:

"64% of fatal glider accidents occur during the landing phase."

Tom Knauff

At 17:58 03 August 2016, wrote:
Regarding the many ideas posted, it is probably fitting to repost the
following:

"64% of fatal glider accidents occur during the landing phase."

Tom Knauff

That's a bit like saying that 99% of people who enter a retirement
home die there. You only have to get 30 seconds of any flight
absolutely right, the first and last 15 seconds, you can get away with
most everything else. You only crash when the ground gets in the way.

True (for me....).

"Train for the worst, plan for the best".

I do a sorta standard 3 sided pattern, allowing for adjustments.
I will also allow students to get low on the "wrong side of the pattern" to see what they do.
At the end of tha day, are they OK, is the aircraft flyable?
If yes to both, that's a start, discuss from there.

Some here know where I've landed before, not happy on my end other than worst was a broken gear door hinge or grass stains......
I can teach from my "less than wonderful choices" in the past.
Do the "standard pattern" (at least in the US) most of the time so others can "guess" what you're doing.
Adjust as needed.
Be prepared for stupid stuff "weather, other pilots, ground peeps, etc......".

Or over speed, or over G, or collide with another aircraft, unintentional IMC, land long, land too fast...

On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 at 12:58:11 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Regarding the many ideas posted, it is probably fitting to repost the following:

"64% of fatal glider accidents occur during the landing phase."

Tom Knauff

Then perhaps we are teaching it wrong?

Or not beating into new pilots' the deadly importance of AOA (or airspeed, for the unwashed...) when low and slow?

A landing pattern is just a procedure. When it becomes a crutch for poor airmanship (knowledge, skills, currency) it can apparently become pretty deadly!

Kirk
66

On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 at 1:58:11 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Regarding the many ideas posted, it is probably fitting to repost the following:

"64% of fatal glider accidents occur during the landing phase."

Tom Knauff

Would you be happier if the distribution of fatal accidents favored some other phase of flight? The goal should be to reduce overall accidents, not to shift fatalities to some other phase of flight!

On Thursday, August 4, 2016 at 8:34:45 AM UTC+12, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
True (for me....).

"Train for the worst, plan for the best".

I do a sorta standard 3 sided pattern, allowing for adjustments.
I will also allow students to get low on the "wrong side of the pattern" to see what they do.
At the end of tha day, are they OK, is the aircraft flyable?
If yes to both, that's a start, discuss from there.

Some here know where I've landed before, not happy on my end other than worst was a broken gear door hinge or grass stains......
I can teach from my "less than wonderful choices" in the past.
Do the "standard pattern" (at least in the US) most of the time so others can "guess" what you're doing.
Adjust as needed.
Be prepared for stupid stuff "weather, other pilots, ground peeps, etc.......".

More than that .. take students lowish (300 or 400 ft) downwind of the field or on the wrong side of the pattern (or both), or directly over the touchdown point (deliberately "thermalling" in sink works well) and then "you have control". If they can't sort it out with a non-standard circuit then they're not ready for solo.

An AOPA article states that the AOPA Safety Institute and University of North Dakota are studying the "circular vs rectangular" pattern as a result of the NTSB "Most Wanted Safety Improvements. It'll be interesting to see what the study produces.

To reply to the subject question in a word: NO.

You can stall and spin from any attitude or airspeed. All you have to
do is plan and execute it correctly or simply f*ck up the turn.

On 11/18/2016 6:25 AM, wrote:
An AOPA article states that the AOPA Safety Institute and University of North Dakota are studying the "circular vs rectangular" pattern as a result of the NTSB "Most Wanted Safety Improvements. It'll be interesting to see what the study produces.

--
Dan, 5J

On Friday, November 18, 2016 at 8:06:21 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
To reply to the subject question in a word: NO.

You can stall and spin from any attitude or airspeed. All you have to
do is plan and execute it correctly or simply f*ck up the turn.

On 11/18/2016 6:25 AM, wrote:
An AOPA article states that the AOPA Safety Institute and University of North Dakota are studying the "circular vs rectangular" pattern as a result of the NTSB "Most Wanted Safety Improvements. It'll be interesting to see what the study produces.

--
Dan, 5J

It's REALLY hard to spin while flying coordinated - if you know of a way I would truly like to know. It is also tough to stall while flying coordinated because it takes a very high angle of attack and you would really have to work it keeping the glider coordinated as you approach stall. The FAA is emphasizing an angle of attack indicator to prevent spins; I think what is needed is an audible flight coordination indicator. In our gliders we have a heads-up flight coordination indicator which is even better - it's called a yaw string (but you have to look at it and react to it).

Tom