Could the Press Grow a Spine?

"Mike Dargan" wrote in message
news:qd0Dc.117009$0y.58857@attbi_s03...
WalterM140 wrote:
Fact: Kerry went to war. Bush didn't.



Ed mentioned Orwell. It's orwellian to belittle the hero and laud the
shirker.

Walt

The Republicans and their junior college instructor lackey's have a long
history of belittling those who served well while exaggerating the
military records of their, more prudent, candidates.

Can anyone remember the 1972 election? During WWII Richard Nixon ran a
Navy fruit drink stand at some South Pacific backwater supply base while
George McGovern was leading groups of B24s in daylight attacks on Nazi
Europe. AFter the war McGovern used the GI Bill to get a Ph.D., while
Nixon used slush funds to finance red baiting.

By election time in 1972 the Republican propaganda machine convinced the
weak minded and ignorant that Nixon was the warrior and McGovern the dodger.

They're trying to pull the same trick in 2004.

Can't knock them for trying, Mike. It may be old stuff, but if it worked once,
who's to say that it won't work again with the new set of rubes?

George Z.

The Republicans and their junior college instructor lackey's have a long
history of belittling those who served well while exaggerating the
military records of their, more prudent, candidates.

Can anyone remember the 1972 election? During WWII Richard Nixon ran a
Navy fruit drink stand at some South Pacific backwater supply base while
George McGovern was leading groups of B24s in daylight attacks on Nazi
Europe. AFter the war McGovern used the GI Bill to get a Ph.D., while
Nixon used slush funds to finance red baiting.

By election time in 1972 the Republican propaganda machine convinced the
weak minded and ignorant that Nixon was the warrior and McGovern the dodger.

They're trying to pull the same trick in 2004.


Yes.

I have only briefly heard any of the Hoopla around Clinton's book.

I did hear him say one striking thing:

After Carter won in 1976 and was then defeated by Reagan in 1980, the
Republicans -seriously- thought that no Democratic candidate could -ever- be
elected again. Not given their dirty tricks organization they installed in
1972. Clinton's election they saw as a break in the "natural order of
things."That dirty tricks organization is going great guns even now, and has
convinced some otherwise wonderful Americans that Bush -- the clear shirker --
who declined to volunteer for overseas service, is more worthy than a man who
not only volunteered for combat duty, but even requested an even more dangerous
assignment.

This dirty tricks organization went full tilt in an effort to keep Clinton
from governing. They did this with the White Water scandal -- nothing there.
And Vince Foster -- nothing there. As President Clinton said, Ken Starr was
determined to drive him out of office regardless of the facts -- to -negate-
the decision of the voters.

The Republicans appear to have a full grasp of Orwell, even if some college
professors who often post here do not.

Walt

(WalterM140) wrote in message ...

This dirty tricks organization went full tilt in an effort to keep Clinton
from governing. They did this with the White Water scandal -- nothing there.

Ahem. Last I heard somewhere around 20 folks went to prison in the
Whitewater cases. Jim Tucker, the sitting Governor of Arkansas
went straight from the governor's house to the big house.

"Nothing there" is an incredibly arrogant lie. I'm disappointed
that you believed it.

And Vince Foster -- nothing there. As President Clinton said, Ken Starr was
determined to drive him out of office regardless of the facts -- to -negate-
the decision of the voters.

Another lie. Ken Starr exhonerated Clinton IRT Vince Foster and also
IRT whitewater and a few other allegations that I'm too tired to
recall for now. He did prepare the best case he could for impeachment
because that is part of the job of the OIC and one factor that
distinguished it from a Special Prosecutor. IMHO, and that of a
majority of Senators that best case did not justify removing Clinton
form office but Starr would have been remiss in his duties, to
put it mildly, had he refused to make that case.

As you may recall, the OIC was tasked with the dual duties of
criminal investigatrion and investigating any basis for impeachment
to avoid the conflicts that arose in the separate Justice Department
and House of Representatives investigation of the Iran Contra
Scandal. That criminal investigation was brought to a standstill
when the House granted immunity to key witnesses who then happily
claimed to be the ringleaders and skated.

As you know (and certainly as Clinton knows) each investigation done
by every independent counsel was approved, in advance, by the Attorney
General and a panel of three Federal Judges. Wheras in the past,
the Attorney General had assigned different independent counsels to
investigated independant allegations, Reno chose to keep assigning
investigation to Starr, rather than creating new independent councils.
I'm not clear on why she did that, maybe for economy, it was probably
cheaper to have one OIC pursuing a half dozen different investigations
than to have a half dozen OICs all operating independently and often
redundantly with each other.

OTOH, it worked out well for CLinton as every time Reno assigned a
new investigation to Starr a whole bunch of lying sycophants would
start proclaiming that Starr was out of control and operating without
restraint.

Of course there were other OICs during the Clinton years, but they were
investigating persons other than the Clintons themselves.

I don't know how successful they were, but I bet that if you use some
sort of statistic like how much the government spent on prosecution
for every day someone convicted by a Special Prosecutor/Independent
Counsel spent in prison Starr would rank second only to Leon Jaworski.

--

FF

"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message
om...
(WalterM140) wrote in message
...

This dirty tricks organization went full tilt in an effort to keep Clinton
from governing. They did this with the White Water scandal -- nothing there.

Ahem. Last I heard somewhere around 20 folks went to prison in the
Whitewater cases. Jim Tucker, the sitting Governor of Arkansas
went straight from the governor's house to the big house.

"Nothing there" is an incredibly arrogant lie. I'm disappointed
that you believed it.

In the context that the initial purpose of the probe was to get the goods on
Clinton, it was not a lie. They never uncovered sufficient involvement to
warrant an indictment against him. So, as far as Clinton was concerned, there
was nothing there.

George Z.

are you kidding?


Like pornographer Ken Starr and CNN, who thrived on the opportunity to
introduce the words "oral sex" into everyday usage the way the
initials, H.B. (Horny *******) are currently being magnified, the
media is having another salacious field day. I think the real initials
that merit widespread circulation are S.M. (Stupid Morons) because
they apply to the media and to all the authorities who still think
that this is all about sex. This is about the murder of Laci Peterson
and about all the unindicted whores (feel free to be vulgar now that
the media has lowered expectations) who blame an innocent man to cover
up their own incompetence or involvement. At the very least, these
S.M.'s are obstructing justice by distorting the truth about the
murder of Laci Peterson. If it wasn't for the investigative reports of
David Sween, who has been one step ahead of the effort to frame an
innocent man, Scott Peterson would have been dead and buried by now,
just like Richard Albert Ricci was. The fact that David Sween is
responsible for saving Scott Peterson became graphically plain
recently, when the disgraced prosecution tried to save the reputation
of the incompetent, Detective Allen Brocchini. The detective had
gotten a call about how Scott dumped Laci in the ocean on April 19,
2003, a day after Scott Peterson was arrested, but Detective Allen
Brocchini did not follow up because, in his words,

"I just couldn't corroborate it, and I just didn't put a lot of stock
in it."

In retrospect, such a call is consistent with the persistent effort to
frame Scott Peterson, and investigator, David Sween, had virually made
that crystal clear when he wrote the following report:

http://www.geocities.com/botenth/scott.htm

So you see, if David Sween did not methodically and systematically
expose every absurd plot to frame Scott Peterson, the prosecution
might have fraudulently "cemented" the case against Scott early on,
and he may have died in prison, just like Richard Albert Ricci did.
The April 19 telephone call tip that Brochini dismissed is the very
same one that the prosecution has currently embraced, and that is a
clear indication of the fact that earlier efforts to frame Scott
Peterson were discarded because David Sween exposed every fraudulent
effort to "cement" the case against Scott Peterson.

If Scott has a guardian angel looking over his shoulder, his name is
David Sween, and I seriously believe that in the absence of his
brilliant reporting, Scott Peterson would be dead.

How long is the prison torture of innocent people going to be
tolerated? Why are we not charging Ken Starr for torture? With Susan
McDougal and her husband, did Starr not use cruel and unusual
punishment, did Starr not obstruct justice, did Starr not tamper with
witnesses, did Starr not violate the racketeering statutes with the
far right wing, did Star not...??? If Starr's look-a-like, Distaso,
manages to turn Scott Peterson into another Jim McDougall, are we
going to applaud this license to murder an innocent man? Jim McDougal
was convicted on May 28, 1996 of 18 charges against him. Facing up to
84 years in prison and $4.5 million in fines, McDougal agreed to
cooperate with Starr's office. His cooperation netted a reduced
sentence, and in April 1997 he was sentenced to three years in prison
and a year of house arrest, three years of probation and a $10,000
fine. Jim McDougal conveniently died in jail in March 1998. His
cooperation produced the allegation that Susan McDougal and Bill
Clinton had been lovers. Was that statement, (true or not), worth 81
years in jail and almost 4.5 million dollars? Pornographer, Ken Starr
evidently thought so. McDougall's death denied the opportunity to
prove that his original indictment was a consequence of his refusal to
lie. Perhaps, if somebody paid a hefty price for the torture of Jim
McDougal, the murders of Chandra Levy and Laci Peterson would have at
least been investigated in a competent manner, because as long as
justice is about harrassing innocent people, it doesn't exist.

http://www.geocities.com/botenth/scott.htm

In message qd0Dc.117009$0y.58857@attbi_s03, Mike Dargan
writes
Can anyone remember the 1972 election? During WWII Richard Nixon ran a
Navy fruit drink stand at some South Pacific backwater supply base
while George McGovern was leading groups of B24s in daylight attacks on
Nazi Europe.

I'm hardly a Nixon fan - but bug juice doesn't make and serve itself,
and recruits don't get a lot of say where they serve. I'll offer myself
as an example: fit and fairly smart, I'm also badly short-sighted, a
fact that modern contact lenses let me mostly ignore. Would I be a
coward if, sent to the USAAF, I ended up ground crew rather than a
fighter pilot? You go where the needs of the Service dictate - that's
still true now - and you do the job you're given as best you can.


If there's evidence that Nixon used undue influence to get himself a
cushty job, then by all means show it. If all you can say is that he
went where he was sent and might have sighed with relief... too bad.

They're trying to pull the same trick in 2004.

The US electorate will decide, and only the results are my problem. You
picked the candidates, you choose the winner, you live with the
results..

--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

The US electorate will decide, and only the results are my problem. You
picked the candidates, you choose the winner, you live with the
results..

As a British thinker said long time ago "Democracy is the art of keeping masses
outside of decision making process"
If its an art then surely US is the Beethoven of this art.

Just remember what happened to Perot,Buchanan and Dean.

US electorate is only allowed to rubber stamp some body elses decision.

From: (ArtKramr)


Fact: Kerry went to war. Bush didn't.


Arthur Kramer

I went to war too. Clinton lied to ROTC to get out of it. Dean lied to a draft
board to get out of it. Cheney was too busy. Bush was in the guard. Kerry was
in the Navy.

What, in the name of all that is holy does, this have to do with their plotical
histories?

The only ones that should be excluded from public office are Clinton and Dean
since he admitted to committing felonies: providing fraudulent medical
"evidence" to his draft board and smoking marijuana which was a felony at the
time.

Dan, U.S. Air Foce, retired

What, in the name of all that is holy does, this have to do with their
plotical [sic]
histories?

Well, strictly speaking, Bush is a deserter.

Walt

"WalterM140" wrote in message
...

Well, strictly speaking, Bush is a deserter.


You've been asked repeatedly for hard evidence of your assertions. You have
yet to provide any. Strictly speaking, all you've done here is prove you're
just another ignorant partisan.